In your screenshots, you’ve specified that both the Section Layout and the Style should use 11 pt. Bembo, with the style having narrower margins and very slightly tighter line spacing. That looks like what you got.
Nope. I changed the global font to Papyrus, one of this board’s favorite fonts. If the defined style should override everything else, then I should still see the block quote as 11 pt Bembo.
Guess what happened?
I don’t see how users are successfully able to make magic with Compile. Overrides don’t work. Defining styles works in the editor but nowhere else. I thought that one of the core principles of Scrivener was to let you write freely and Compile stitches it all together.
I feel like an Airbus pilot: “what is it doing now?”
The only fix I see is to treat Scrivener like a traditional word processor, and to, like in the old html days, treat everything as
Are you using the global font override? (Top center of the main Compile screen.) If so, don’t.
So a style override does not override text setting after all. Just some of them, sometimes. It would be nice to see a flow chart showing when this occurs.
I’ll change the block quote to Papyrus to see what happens.
Behavior of the global font override is explained in Section 23.3.1 of the manual.
Behavior of Section Layout formatting is explained in Section 24.2.3.
Behavior of Styles in the Compile command is explained in Section 24.5.
These are roughly in order of granularity. That is, the global font override is intended for people who’ve got everything set up the way they want, but then they read a set of submission guidelines that demands the use of Courier 12 throughout. Section Layouts are the preferred tool for formatting body text and headers, and Styles are intended for “exceptions” of various kinds.
No no no
The Compiled result, stubbornly resisting all efforts to crowbar in the desired fonts and margins,
despite having these deceptively set as styles:
A block quote is an exception.
I thought your previous post said you were changing the block quote to Papyrus?
If you’d like detailed help with specific settings, it may be faster to open a support ticket, here:
Probably including a demonstration project would help. You can email a project by using the File → Backup → Backup To command, and checking the box to create a ZIP backup.
I did indeed. There it is, in all it’s faux-masri glory, shining in the editor. The problem is Compile doesn’t override.
Papyrus in the editor is a defined style. Now. select Compile and drop a heavy index finger on the Return key:
Where is the papyrus block quote? Gone.
I selected papyrus because it stands out and in this sites blog it was mentioned somewhere a bout how wonderful that typeface truly is.
But you previously showed a screenshot in which the Compile command specified Bembo Std for the Block Quote style. Unless you changed that setting, Compile is behaving exactly as instructed.
Again, we’d be happy to look at the project directly.
I did indeed. The block quote had different margins. And in its defined space (the styles panel) had narrow margins and .9 linespacing, where as the text was 11/13 with wider margins.
This was ignored by Compile. I changed the defined block quote style to papyrus:
to make it stand out. The point is, I was told here by several that a defined style overrides a Compile definition. That is not the case, unless there’s another hidden setting somewhere.
Here are the Compile settings:
As you can see, the global option, at your suggestion, was changed to “Determined by Section Layout.”
This is the screenshot I’m talking about:
(https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/3/a3d86ffea112adb5f86c7b12b08ec4a503894819.jpeg)
I’ve been a Scrivener customer for ten years. I have always used the program just to write first drafts. I thought I would cut out an intermediate program and go straight to camera-ready copy? What kind of meth was I smoking? Is it really this difficult. I can see why Mr. Keith wrote (in the bog post mentioning papyrus) that his feedback about Scrivener is that it is too complex and when customers say “too complex” they are referring to Compile. With overrides not overriding, I’m not surprised.
Now here’s something interesting; dump the “Override Text and Notes Settings” and I get a half-full glass: the defined style is at 11 point, but papyrus? Perhaps on the Egyptian border with Sudan.
Let me try something then: defining the style not once, but twice. Once in the editor, another in Compile. I’ll make it 24 pt papyrus:
The Pharaoh appears. Let’s restore the "override text and notes settings and see what happens:
And he remains on his throne. So from this, I can understand:
In order for a defined style to override text options, the style must be defined not only in the editor (or maybe not at all in the editor) but in the Compile dialog. In other words, define the style, not once, but twice. Otherwise, the editor’s definition will have no effect on the Compile process.
So, a defined style isn’t always a defined style. As the Irish would say, FFS.
Again, please open a support ticket with a copy of a demonstration project. Attempting to troubleshoot this sort of thing via out-of-context screenshots is nearly impossible.
Figure 3 hours for each of these issues and subtract 20% due to frustration and my own exaggeration. That’s a lot of time.
I just sent the project. I got a response thanking me for my request for a 3.0 upgrade (I didn’t ask for this, I’m on 3.2.3) and that they had to go through all these requests manually so it may be a while before I get my 3.0 upgrade I didn’t request.
It’s too bad, really.
In the Editor, at a minimum, you must assign the Style to the appropriate text. Otherwise, the Compile command has no way to know the text is “special.”
How the Editor Style interacts with the Compile command depends on the Style specification. For instance, it’s possible to specify a paragraph style with no defined font, in which case the defined “body” font will be used.
The manual explains all of this in great detail. See the sections I referenced above.