A couple suggestions/requests for Hoist function

First, thank you so much for Scrivener. I’m nearing completion on a book on leadership that could never have been written without Scrivener. What follows is a very minor suggestion for a superb program.

I’m running Scriv 3 Beta in Windows 10.

I typically include text in parent files/folders. But hoist only works on the files/folders contained within the file/folder you have hoisted. To me this is counter-intuitive and problematic, because it prevents me from writing in the hoisted file. To write in that file I have to hoist the container one level up, but then that often includes lots of others files/folders that I don’t want to work in. It would be more intuitive and easier, for me at least, if hoisting a file placed that file at the top of the hoisted binder list, with it’s child folders indented underneath it. I currently work around this by creating an artificial parent file and hoist that, but that’s less than optimal.

It would be really useful to be able to assign Hoist to the toolbar, so a button click would hoist/unhoist, rather than having to go through the menus.

I also find the placement of the Hoist function in the menu confusing. It seems to me it’s not an outline function, it’s a binder function.

Thanks for the kind words, glad to hear we could help a bit with the completion of your book; and congrats on that!

I use the hoist feature quite a bit, especially in some projects, and I also make heavy use of a full-text outline, like you do. Having spent a good amount of time working this way, I can share a few tips that might suit you.

This goes for every type of sidebar listing you can view, other than the binder: click on the hook-shaped arrow next to the close button to load the container in the editor, and observe what happens in the main editor, and what is listed in the editor header bar.

This is identical to clicking on the folder’s icon itself with the full binder revealed, so at this point everything you are accustomed to having at your disposal is in the main editor. Switch the group view off to edit the text, Alt-drag the folder’s icon from and to the header bar to stash its text in a Copyholder, or whatever you like.

From this folder view, try pressing Shift+Alt+← (the Navigate ▸ Go To ▸ Enclosing Group command) and you’ll find your editor now showing its parent folder—meaning the editor has escaped the confines of the hoist. Of course the implication here is that you can do the same from any text file in the hoisted sidebar, too. If you go up from a file in the sidebar, that takes the editor to the hoisted container, just like clicking on the hook arrow. So in some cases, if I’m typing in a subfile, then the “up” shortcut is more convenient for me than going for a button with the mouse. Navigating up in the editor is, for me, second nature.

As to the menu placement, it’s a bit of an odd-ball command, it and the view toggle for subdocument counts. These are the only two Binder-specific commands, so it made more sense to lump them in as outline tools.

On that point I suppose we’d disagree, but my thinking on that is that hoisting is a natural concept to the Outliner, and to outlining in general; clicking a subfolder is hoisting the outliner to that level. We don’t use that terminology because it is so natural, but that is precisely what is happening. In a more traditional sense, and where the term “hoist” was taken from, this would be a command found in a menu that would operate on the master outline—not unlike how it operates on the binder.

So from that argument, perhaps you can see how we’d classify it as an outlining tool first, especially since there aren’t enough binder-specific view settings to have a “Binder Options” submenu to file it into.

How about a shortcut? That is one you can set a keyboard shortcut for. You can toggle it on and off with the shortcut you choose.

We try to stick with common tools for the icons. As much as you or I might appreciate the feature, it’s probably not one that gets a lot of use. :wink:

Thank you so much! I would never have ferreted out all of that on my own, but it’s going to streamline my workflow substantially.

Your explanation of the menu placement makes perfect sense; after all, the binder is an outline.

The Shift+Alt+← shortcut is great—I use keyboard shortcuts whenever possible (heavy user of AutoHotkey on Windows).

I wasn’t sure what you meant by switching the group view off; not sure that it matters, but curious.

Yes to the shortcut. I had already created one in AutoHotkey. I prefer to keep built-in shortcuts plain vanilla and customize everything with AHK. That way I can port all of my shortcuts to any installation without having to customize the software configuration.

Thanks again, this was so helpful!

Tom

You’re welcome!

I just mean accessing the folder’s text itself, by turning the current group view mode off. If you click on a folder and get an Outliner, then pressing Ctrl+3 will turn off the outline and show the container’s text. Pressing it again will bring the outliner back.