A year on and I am still trying to recover from a catastrophic loss of Scrivener work

[Orpheus]

@kewms

Thank you for emphasizing this. Dropbox is wonderfully convenient. I use it constantly myself. But it is not a backup service and should not be trusted with the only copy of important data.

At best, and the reason I got it, was that DropBox is an offsite backup of your data in case your domicile with all your physical backups are destroyed in a natural disaster like wildfires, floods, earthquakes or volcanic eruptions where you have to vacate the premises in a hurry. Then at least you could download your backups from the cloud.

[Orpheus]

@AmberV

Sure, you can treat a TM drive more like a traditional backup and only plug it in now and then, or in rotation with others. It’s not quite the same as having an hourly full backup though, so I would of define that has a hybrid “Time Machine”. The hourly aspect of it is nice to have, but I wouldn’t depend on it for my only backup, is more what I was getting at.

I have four TM drives I use one drive all week. Then on Sunday I will backup to all the other drives and then use a different drive for the next week. And then repeat every Sunday. So in a month each drive is only used full time for 1 week. Thus only one drive is connected to the computer at all times. So in a worst case scenario if the drive attached to my machine gets fried the most I would lose is one weeks worth of data.

If you don’t like TM machines hourly backup schedule you can create your own custom schedule using TimeMachineEditor

I use an external monitor, macOS is sensitive to it and if too many apps run then it causes a heat related kernel panic and slows everything down. TimeMachine was a major contributor. So I rescheduled TM using the editor and things work better.

But I am going to get a new MBP with M1 Max chip in it, I suspect that would eliminate the kernel panic associated with the external monitor.

[kewms]

Real offsite backup services exist. Dropbox isn’t one of them. It gets close if you only use it for backup purposes, and don’t have multiple devices, but even then you’re paying more money for less reliability than a true backup service.

[Orpheus]

@kewms

Real offsite backup services exist. Dropbox isn’t one of them. It gets close if you only use it for backup purposes, and don’t have multiple devices, but even then you’re paying more money for less reliability than a true backup service.

I use it for stashing a large library of books I had digitized. I would not want to lose it. I also have my Scrivener files on it. Nothing else. It is synchronized with my wife’s MBP as an additional backup. Plus she is a librarian, so in her spare tie she organizes the collection.

For only $11.99/month it is affordable and convenient. Plus in the past (pre-pandemic, remember those days) I moved around and traveled a lot which would make having a local offsite backup impractical. It thus meets my needs.

@kewms

less reliability than a true backup service.

What constitutes a true backup service?

[AmberV]

@Orpheus

What constitutes a true backup service?

I’d scroll to here and read down a bit, as that very point is what has been under discussion for a bit now.

[Orpheus]

@AmberV

I’d scroll to here and read down a bit, as that very point is what has been under discussion for a bit now.

I had already read that. I was just wondering what she had in mind.

[popcornflix]

I think she meant a “true backup service” is not a syncing service that will delete backed up files when you delete them locally.

[kewms]

As Ioa said, this is already addressed upthread. But my definition is that a true backup is a static archive of the data at the time the backup was taken. It cannot change either the local hard drive or itself without explicit instructions from the user.

[devinganger]

@Orpheus

What constitutes a true backup service?

Backblaze is a commonly used example of a cloud backup service.

[demonofsarila]

@kewms

As Ioa said, this is already addressed upthread. But my definition is that a true backup is a static archive of the data at the time the backup was taken. It cannot change either the local hard drive or itself without explicit instructions from the user.

The hospital network I used to work for would agree with you. They regularly (ie daily) made copies of all their digital data on many storage devices, including tape. Which would then be stored away in a secure location/s, and never over-written with any new changes. Having a spare copy of current files is wonderful (sync), but that isn’t the same as having a way to bring back files you deleted a year ago (backup). It’s like how having a birthday party every year isn’t the same as having video from your 5th birthday.

[Orpheus]

@kewms

As Ioa said, this is already addressed upthread. But my definition is that a true backup is a static archive of the data at the time the backup was taken. It cannot change either the local hard drive or itself without explicit instructions from the user.

Could you give an example of such? Would TimeMachine (with suitable settings) not fit your definition? For example TM could be configured so that oldest backups are not erased, and when it eventually becomes full you store the full TM drive and replace with an empty drive. This way you could have backups that go back for a very long time. Just thinking out loud.

[kewms]

A Time Machine drive configured to replace old backups “when full” is acting on instructions from the user. It is a “backup” service by my definition.

The comparison I’m making is not between Time Machine, Back Blaze, and Super Duper (all of which I use), but between any of those and “synchronization” services like iCloud and Dropbox. The entire point of a synchronization service is to make multiple devices match each other and a central server, automatically and without user intervention. When a synchronization service wipes out all copies due to a misguided (or malicious) deletion on one machine, it is behaving exactly as intended, and this is precisely the behavior that true “backup” services avoid.

[Orpheus]

Thank you for that clarification.

[drmajorbob]

@devinganger

@Orpheus

What constitutes a true backup service?

Backblaze is a commonly used example of a cloud backup service.

I just subscribed to Backblaze, but I’m wondering if it fits the definition. It’s set to continuous backup, meaning (I think) that files are backed up as they change. That would mean the elements of a project are not saved all at the same time.

[rms]

probably true but i am assuming after closing the Scrivener project the. Backblaze will catch up. i have not confirmed that by any testing but seems it is as that. i also have the Scriverer zip backups going to Backblaze so even if wrong about how the active project is handled the zip should be handled correctly.

[AmberV]

Their help file on managing packages may be of some assistance.

@drmajorbob: That would mean the elements of a project are not saved all at the same time.

That would be less efficient, since every edit would require all 3gb of your project to be uploaded (or however big it is). But if that is what you really want, firing off File ▸ Back Up ▸ Back Up To... into an area the backup service monitors would do the trick.

[drmajorbob]

@AmberV

That would be less efficient, since every edit would require all 3gb of your project to be uploaded (or however big it is). But if that is what you really want, firing off File ▸ Back Up ▸ Back Up To... into an area the backup service monitors would do the trick.

Good point, although that is taken care of by the zip backups already. My general philosophy, when anything is in doubt, is that they are the project in preference to the unzipped variety.