Anyone submitted a Scrivener outline in query?

Dear God.

I’m so very glad I work in theatre.

Of course, right from the get-go I have made it very clear that Scrivener is not a formatting application and that for specialist formats you will need to export your work to a dedicated word processor or Final Draft. This is unlikely to change in the near future. And hey, that extra 1,000 users is only going to distract me from writing my Great Novel. :slight_smile:
All the best,
Keith

Yup.

And here’s the blurb straight from the website (emphases mine):

This 4 oz. rubber mallet makes script binding a breeze! Hammer out your ideas then hammer in your brads to create a tight, professional script that will withstand numerous readings.

Using our brads tells the gatekeepers that you know the turf. Combined with brass washers, you ensure your script will stand the wear and tear of script readings. They provide a secure ‘sandwich’ effect that minimizes the stresses exerted on brad bound documents. This rubber mallet will further ensure that your script will look great as it moves up the ranks!

As to the Accos vs Chicagos (I’d fogotten the name), the jury is still out, but the Accos appear to be ahead. Here’s what the Writer’s Store site has to say

Accos: These are THE brads used by Hollywood studios, scriptwriters, and production companies, the legendary ACCO #5 Fastener. Using these brads tells the gatekeepers that you know the turf. Just right for scripts from 70 to 120 pages these brads are 1 1/4 inch long, solid brass, with wide head to ensure your script will withstand numerous readings. Be sure to pick up matching brass washers for added durability.

Chicagos: Script brads that screw! Frustrated because you can’t find Chicago posts to fasten your scripts together? We heard you, and found them for you! Order your Silver, Black or Brass aluminum screw style Script fasteners in sets of 50. You will love the ease of handling and professional look this simple solution will provide.

But wait! There’s a new kid on the block, Steel-Plated Fasteners! Here’s what the folks at the Writer’s Sotre want you to know about them:

Steelies: Make your script stand out with steel-plated script fasteners! These eagerly-awaited 1 1/4 inch fasteners are the same size as the industry-standard Acco #5 Brass Fasteners, and hold 70-120 pages. They work with your existing brass washers, and provide a great look against our Classic Linen and ProScript Covers. Screenwriters everywhere have been clambering for this type of fastener, and now for the first time they are available outside of the Hollywood Studios!

And once you’ve inserted these into your ears, you can look really cool by wearing a special Writer’s hat!

Yes, you too can be a real writer. Says, the Writer’s Store: “You have to name it to claim it!â€

Acco brass, baby. Acco brass #5. No washers, no steel. Smack them flat with a hammer, makes you feel like a writer. (Washers make it tough to pull your script apart and make copies, and thereby slows your scripts progress through the Hollywood food chain.)

Chicago screws are like putting artwork on your cover. Might as well write “CLUELESS NEWBIE” on every page. (Don’t worry, they’ll toss your ChiScrews and put in Accos the first time they copy your script.)


Hey guys, don’t bother me. I’m writing. (or am I clambering? I can’t remember)

T

That’s why I’ve refrained from asking for essential specialty formatting features like:

Mores & Continueds
Scene Numbers
A & B Pages
Locking Pages
Dual Dialogue
Revision Marks
Colored Page Revisions

Maybe you could change the way you view the request. I’m asking for pretty basic script processing features: a hard right margin in Action, and an indication of where the page ends. I’ve always expected to export to Final Draft or Screenwriter for advanced formatting and revisioning.

You don’t want more sales? So…Scrivener’s going Open Source? :wink:

Thanks again for considering our requests. We kid because we care.

Remember that Scrivener was never intended as a screenwriting app. I added these features at the request of a few users who just wanted very, very basic script formatting features, and always made it very clear that this was really as far as things go. What you call basic screenwriting features are actually only basic for a dedicated screenwriting program. In terms of Scrivener, these are not basic at all. It was in every readme file and on the About page of the website that once 1.0 was released, development would wind down whilst I used Scrivener myself - which is exactly what is happening. I also made it clear that “Scrivener is not a promise” - all sales should be based on the current features, and not on any potential future features, nothing of which is promised. :slight_smile: So, in terms of all of these requests, I will be more than willing to review them, but not until 2.0 in a year or two, when another major development cycle begins.

As far as the hard right margin is concerned, this may happen sooner, but page break indications will not happen.

All the best,
Keith

How 'bout at least the hat? How hard could that be to program?

T

/me clambers out of this thread. Post Haste!

No, no. You’re clamoring out of the thread. I can hear you from here.
(and Keith is clamouring)

:wink:

Best,

T

  1. I’d like to point out that my post re popcorn’s post was in no way an endorsement the current state of the screenplay submission process. Is it absurd? Yes. Do Neil Labute and David Mamet write their movie scripts in “accepted” format? Yes.

  2. That said, popcorn’s post remains right on the money. I’d hate to see someone spend weeks and months writing a script, only to undermine their efforts with an “amateurish” presentation. Listen to popcorn, he knows what he’s talking about.

  3. I don’t know why all this surprises anyone. Hollywood is fairly famous for their adherence to “the way things are done.” From the people who brought you the “franchise film”, the re-make, the horror movie that’s EXACTLY 90 minutes long, the historical drama that’s always pushing three hours… hell, from the people who brought you the phrase “from the people who brought you.” In Los Angeles, same is good, different is bad, and almost no one smokes cigarettes. Why I live here is beyond me.

  4. Yes, most of the You Too Can Write A Screenplay! cottage industry is indeed… I was going to say “a scam that turns a noble craft into something akin to the lottery”, but let’s just leave it at “based more in fantasy than reality.” And yes, the Writer’s Store does sell a lot of that stuff – including an $18 pad of paper that’s set up with lines that duplicate proper screenplay margins (yikes!). But the people at the Store are awfully nice, extremely helpful, and they do carry a lot of very worthwhile merchandise. I’d hate for them to be mad at me.

  5. Keith, Scrivener has exactly the right amount of screenplay functionality – enough to allow screenwriters to work in this excellent environment. Thanks for including us. Don’t change a thing.

I’ll keep my fingers crossed for luck. Slows down my typing, tho. :wink:

The temptation to make this my signature line is almost overwhelming. :laughing:

That is, of course, because the air is so imbued with toxins that the necessity of smoking a cigarette effectively drops to zero.

It does indeed, if you’re aiming for Hollywood. My reaction was a mix of appalledness (?) at the concept that using the wrong kind of paper fastener will get your script rejected out of hand, that Hollywood is such a production line that writers get further by conforming to the nth degree unto the tiniest, most irrelevant detail than being funny, wise, or engaging, and that you don’t have a choice.

I did know all this of course - I brought up brads in the first place - but I was just having a holy f*** moment.

The other point to remember is that in the UK at least, honestly, brads, margins, lines per page, even fonts, FFS, honestly don’t matter. I just checked out the BBC’s Writer’s Room sample scripts. There are loads of different formats, any one of which would give Cole and Haag the vapours. Don’t let the format Nazis stop you actually writing… (and popcorn, I’m not calling you a format Nazi. You’re just being professional for your market, I know).

Yep, I agree completely. The only thing I’ve felt the lack of yet is a kind of ‘reverse edit Scrivenings’. I cut and pasted a Word script into Scriv, and it would be nice to be able to be able to say ‘turn each scene into a section’ (based on sluglines). But that’s not really much of an inconvenience.

Demonstrating yet again that LA is wrong on so many levels.

It may be too late, but you might want to check out the bottom of the Documents menu where the most useful “Split With Selection as Title” lives.

Dave

Yeah that’s what I did, and it was pretty painless compared to other apps I’ve used. But hitting ‘split at slugs’ would’ve been even easier. I’m just incredibly lazy…

Now if only there were a great writing app that let you just outline, research and write, saving the format BS for later.

But those toxins give us such beautiful sunsets!

I had the same issue. I ended up taking a couple of hours and just re-typing 40 or so pages into Scrivener. Which may seem a little ridiculous, but it was a good exercise – and now I can work how I want to work, and can save my Final Draft headaches for the end.

A feature analogous to Tinderbox’s “explode” wouldn’t be a bad addition in the future, in my humble opinion. Tinderbox handles it with a number of options, some of which would not be useful in Scrivener (such as breaking each paragraph into a new note), but the ability to define a custom string of characters as a break point is quite nice. You just type in your separator, press Okay, and get 230 or whatever sub-documents all split at the marker (which can be optionally trashed).