Back ups without stopping writing?

I’ve never seen or heard of a case where the backup didn’t happen as advertised, unless the operating system complains about lack of space or permissions, or antivirus programs intrude (they are viruses in my opinion). I think the system or antivirus software reports the problem in all those cases.

It’s not as if the progress report is a guarantee that the backup succeeded, by the way … only a clue that the backup is attempted … but zipping files is 33 year old technology. It doesn’t fail much. If this is your biggest worry, you’re in great shape.

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Again, the message is always shown.

Again, I cannot always see it. I press CTRL+S and I DO NOT see a message. So I claim there IS NO message.

It’s just that if the project is small, it disappears before you notice it.

So what sense then does a message have which “disappears before you notice it”? It has the same affect like a message which is not shown. Never heard of such futility (well, actually I often did). Unbelievable.

To ensure that it’s on the screen long enough to notice, we would need to require the user to actively dismiss it.

It is still getting more pointless…hadn’t believed it is possible at all. Well, well, well, or just show a message long enough that he can notice it (while he goes on writing).

Checking that option is more relevant to your actual goal than arguing about progress bars.

What? Arguing? Progress bars? What progress bars?

I’ve never seen or heard of a case where the backup didn’t happen as advertised, unless the operating system complains about lack of space or permissions, or antivirus programs intrude (they are viruses in my opinion). I think the system or antivirus software reports the problem in all those cases.

It’s not as if the progress report is a guarantee that the backup succeeded, by the way … only a clue that the backup is attempted … but zipping files is 33 year old technology. It doesn’t fail much. If this is your biggest worry, you’re in great shape.

Er, what? Sorry, what is the context here? Well, thank you, based on what you’ve written, your shape appears to be a little less great.

A fundamental problem here: CTRL-S does NOT create a backup and never will, unless you deliberately overrride its default function. CTRL-S simply saves the current document, which already happens automatically whenever you stop typing to think for 2 minutes, or the time you set.

To create a backup - that is, an additional copy of your project that you can use if the working copy goes bad for some reason - you can go to File > Back up, and choose one of the two options there. Additionally, Scrivener will create backups (additional copies) when you close the application - unless you have deliberately told it not to. You can check this by looking in File > Options > Backup. If “Automatic backups” is checked, and “Back up on project close” is checked then you will create backups in the location specified at the bottom of the panel every time the project closes. You WILL see a dialog box for those.

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Sorry, I do not understand at all. Why is that a fundamental problem? I do not have any idea how to “overrride its default function”. I just set the setting to make Scrivener do a back up when pressing CTRL+S. When I press CTRL+S Scrivener makes a back up each time or should do a back up each time additionally to each time saving the project. As there is no back up message each time I do not know if it really does a back up.

It is NOT about saving the project (when pressing CTRL+S) here.

I am slightly confused now. Do you mean that you have gone to Options > Keyboard and changed “Back Up > Back up to” from Ctrl - Shift - J to Ctrl-S?

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You are quite correct, but it’s 2 seconds of user inactivity (default unless changed by user), not minutes.

Normally, unless the current document is huge (and in Scrivener used properly it should not be) the save time is so quick so as not to be noticed. And saving the current document is not a project backup.

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Rms said:

And saving the current document is not a project backup.

Precisely.

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Normally, unless the current document is huge (and in Scrivener used properly it should not be) the save time is so quick so as not to be noticed. And saving the current document is not a project backup.

So the (by default) 2secondly after inactivity saved item is the only file of the entire project not being saved at that moment (to inactivity of 2 seconds)? And all of the other files of the project are already saved / unchanged then? So there always is a single file that is not saved in a project, the file being edited at the moment?

and in Scrivener used properly it should not be

Why is that?

I could not post anymore?! What’s the point of something like that (cannot read the part cut off):
https://i.imgur.com/3xWLEux.png[/IMG]

Yes, that’s correct. That’s one of the benefits of Scrivener’s project format.

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I think @Ponny has a legitimate Wish for a delay on a non-modal dialog stating a backup is being made. Possibly this could be an Option in the File > Options > Backup tab. The default could be three seconds, enough to make sure the dialog is noticed. Anyone who’s convinced the backup is created could set the option to zero seconds, like it is at this moment. Or Vice Versa.

But the process of backing up already triggers a modal dialog with a progress bar. Are you suggesting a non-modal dialog as well?

And you simply can’t ”go on writing” while Scrivener is creating a backup (because of the modal dialog).

I still think there is a fundamental confusion in this thread between ”saving” and ”backing up” which is muddying the water…

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No, just a non-modal dialog with a timer.

If you cannot back up without locking all files this solution won’t fly. The modal dialog is a consequence of locking all files, preventing the user from accessing the Editor.

My understanding is that you cannot backup without locking all the files. If you could continue to write while the backup is taking place then Scrivener would be backing up a moving target. In that case, how would it know when to stop backing up?

I could be wrong but I have always understood that you can only back up something that is “at rest”, that is , not changing. Just as (in Windows at least) you cannot move or rename a file that is being used by an application.

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I think @Ponny has a legitimate Wish for a delay on a non-modal dialog stating a backup is being made. Possibly this could be an Option in the File > Options > Backup tab. The default could be three seconds, enough to make sure the dialog is noticed. Anyone who’s convinced the backup is created could set the option to zero seconds, like it is at this moment. Or Vice Versa.

I totally agree.
Sometimes I have the same problem, that the Backup is way faster than a second, so I do not see any dialog at all. I does not bother me very much though, because in those cases I check if the Backup file is created, but I can understand @Ponny. When you do frequent manual backups it could be quite bothering to always check the files.

Hence I think an optional setting to force the dialog to being visible for at least a few seconds (for me I guess even 1 would be enough) even if the backup completes faster would be a good thing.

Here is the setting to backup on manual save:

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