Backward quotations after em dash

I’ve only recently begun using Scrivener for Mac and did not have this problem at all in the Windows version.

When writing dialogue, a front quotation is rendered at the end when the conversation ends in an em dash. This is an example I just typed into Scrivener:

“When ending with an em dash, Scrivener uses the wrong type of quotation mark at the end—“

As you can see, they are both front quotations. The only way I’ve found to get around this is to add a letter to the end, after the em dash, add the quotation which is rendered correctly, then delete the letter. For example, I have to type “at the end–p” to get the correct quotation mark on there, then delete the extra “p”.

This is an incredibly frustrating bug considering I write dialogue heavy romance.

Thanks for looking into this.

Has there been any progress on this bug? I’ve been struggling with it for a while, and it’s now 2018.

Mac: 10.13 (Sierra)
Scrivener Version: 2.8

This is an old problem as seen in this thread : ([url]https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/dashes-quotation-marks/30188/1])

Personally I just ignore this while I’m typing and use a compile substitution.

There should be no reason to ignore it in Scrivener 3, since I added code to 3.0 which fixes this. :slight_smile:

So I’ve finally managed to observe, by choosing a writing font that I can actually read, and enlarging it. :smiley: But the truth is that I don’t trust it because I literally cannot see the way the quotes are pointing in the Mac’s current execrable system font (when I’m doing searches, search-and-replace, or setting up substitutions in compile.) Therefore, I still have my laboriously set-up compile substitutions in place, in case any of these have slipped through from the old chapters I ported over from Scrivener 2.

In any event, with your fix, I am doubly sure that my quotes after em-dashes are pointing the correct direction. Thank you!

I generally love the Palatino font, which Scrivener uses by default, but one annoying thing about it is the quotation marks - they look the same in both directions. It’s a shame that macOS doesn’t come with Sabon or Iowan Old Style built in.

I’m not at my Mac to try this, but I seem to recall that you can now copy and paste or export/import the replacements tab of compile in version 3.

Edit: Ah I found the thread where Keith added that functionallity post-3.0 release:

literatureandlatte.com/forum … hp?t=52184

So, you should be able to copy those replacements and paste them to a text file somewhere, and then copy & paste them into any other projects where you think you might need them, eliminating the laboriousness of setting that up. While it’s in the editor of your choice, you should be able to enlarge the font or even change it altogether to assure yourself that the quotes are correctly oriented.

Exactly, Rdale. :smiley: I invested the labour back in 2016, and I copy and paste my substitutions now, since it costs me little. It means I won’t have to worry about trying to search-and-replace my old work if/when I publish an omnibus volume or pick up an old unfinished story.

And yes, KB, Palatino is a lovely font but horrid for writing in. I fear we disagree on which fonts are good for writing—for me, it’s monospaced all the way. I’m a fossil, though, :wink: and I can see the reasoning behind the fonts you’d prefer to ship as default.

I vary in the fonts I like to write in. I do usually prefer a font that looks like a published book even for writing in, although I do have the occasional monospace moment. :slight_smile:

Oops, sorry. Upon re-reading the very words I quoted from your post, it appears that I mistakenly read “I still have my laboriously set-up compile substitutions… ported over from Scrivener 2,” as if you had instead written, “I still have to laboriously set up compile substitutes…”.

Ah well, maybe someone else will benefit from knowing about copying replacements. :blush:

@KB: Sadly I date back to the days when “writing font” meant either what came out of your typewriter or what came out of your pen. Proportional fonts happened after words were blessed by the High Priesthood (editors and Linotype operators) and were beyond the reach of mere writers. Hell, I was 30 years old before I produced a document in a proportional font. And then I reset it in Courier because it looked wrong. :smiley:

@rdale: No problem!

I do still love the way Courier or a typewriter font looks; I just don’t use it much on screen. My main Christmas present a year or two ago, though, was an old Remington Rand typewriter and I love it. I’d love to add a bit of random fade to characters for a true typewriting mode. :slight_smile:

I have minimal nostalgia for typewriters. They are noisy things with no volume controls, and 250 words had to be re-typed to correct the smallest error. I had a manual model, and I cringe to think what it would be like to use it today with my arthritic joints. The only thing a typewriter provided that I want today is a font that makes the tiniest error painfully obvious.

I know this is an old post, but I just realized I have quotes after ellipses and after em dashes that are backwards. Most of them, in fact. I don’t see any related posts even close to 2020, so I’m wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why this might be happening to me? Thanks!

If it’s any consolation, and I’m sure it’s not, my quotation marks are wonky as well here in 2021. I’m using Scrivner for iPad.

Update: You can fix this by typing the mark first and then inserting the em dash. Not ideal, but if you can’t stand small details like that, it might be worth it. I’m a designer and will literally go insane if I don’t fix it.

Unfortunately this is a known bug in the Apple text system that Scrivener depends on.

Katherine