Cheap but pretty self-publishing?

Hi,

Nah, I don’t want to self-publish exactly, but I do want a little advice on the best but cheapest way of publishing a few books in the UK.

As you may or may not know, I’m a primary school teacher by day. (Yes, it’s the start of my six-week holiday right now - woohoo!) As in many schools, achievement in writing in my school isn’t exactly brilliant - boys, especially, hate writing.

One thing I want to do next year is to get my kids to write a bunch of short stories and then pay to get these stories put into a paperback. This is exactly the sort of thing that will motivate them (they are 10 year-olds, so the paperback will be slim).

I’m thinking Lulu or some such, but I don’t know. Because it’s a school, this has to be very, very cheap; I was hoping that this sort of thing would be a lot cheaper to do nowadays, though. I just know that if my class can get their hands on a paperback containing their writing - and for which they have designed the cover - achievement in writing go up because it will boost their enthusiasm.

It has to be something that can be done easily in the UK.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Best,
Keith

Not really an answer to your question, and certainly not the feeling of “I made a professional book like the ones you can buy in a book store”. But I remember us as children designing book covers with relation to what we wrote, learning binding a book and then binding our texts ourselves. That was fun. Recently I found an old one of my husband’s elementary school time,…

It needs cooperation with the arts teacher of course. …

Best,
Maria

Firstly - sorry, but I have no experience of self-publishing so can’t offer any constructive opinion on your actual question.

However, on the subject of children’s (and especially boys’) writing… I was a foundation governor of a primary school for a few years, and this was a constant preoccupation. I think your idea of publishing a real book is a brilliant one. You mention short stories - but I believe that the majority of boys are much happier to write non-fiction or even “faction” (as indeed are some girls), and that it is the genre of fiction (and institutional/formal expectations of that genre) that puts them off all forms of writing.

I have boy-girl twins, and both are avid, voracious, greedy and largely indiscriminate (but discerning) readers. While my daughter is also an ardent writer, my son has never much enjoyed writing fiction, so would only reluctantly participate in any short story publishing exercise. This is not because he doesn’t like writing per se - it’s because he doesn’t much like writing fiction with a beginning, middle and end, with an expectation of some form of emotional demonstration/development. And it is is not due to lack of ability, either: he writes well and gets excellent marks. He loves writing non-fiction. He loves structuring arguments. He loves presenting facts or opinions in an accessible way. Astonishingly, he likes writing poetry when asked to follow a pattern or to achieve a particular effect, and has come up with some surprisingly deep and effective results. He knows good fiction when he sees it, and is painfully aware that his efforts in that area do not achieve what was in his mind when he set pen to paper. This disillusions him. I have never known him voluntarily re-read any of his fiction, whereas he quite often re-reads his essays and other writing. My daughter, on the other hand, revels in writing fiction as well as other writing forms. Until I had twins, I believed that nurture and education would largely dictate the development of preferences and abilities such as these; now I am forced to admit that character and gender get in the way!

I’m just wondering whether, instead of focusing on short stories, it might be an idea to ask each pupil to submit what they think is their best or favourite piece of writing, regardless of genre or writing style (obviously, having given all areas a stab before deciding)? Then those who feel that their writing strengths lie in areas other than short story writing can publish work they are proud of, rather than work they perhaps believe to be inferior. From various posts here on this forum, it appears that there are lots of us around who have made our living from writing non-fiction in various guises, but who somehow feel that we are not “real” writers because we haven’t yet published a novel. (I’m one of these; you can probably hear my heartstrings twanging.) Where did we get this idea, and is it fair to give children the impression that fiction is more worthy than other writing?

Good luck with the enterprise - it’s a great idea, however you choose to implement it.

My sister published her own book and did a very good job of it. She formed her own small publishing company just to publish her book. It was actually quite easy. She did her own typesetting (using Quark), I was her editor, hired a design artist to do some designe work for the cover, found a printer, worked with the printer, did the proofing (with my help), got a bunch of books printed out, and voila, she published a book. It made it into Powell’s and other local bookstores and even on Amazon. She’s not getting rich off of it, but it sounds like that’s not at all what the goal is with your project.

I can get more details if you are interested, but it really wasn’t all that difficult and it came out quite well.

Alexandria

I have several friends who have self-published through a company by the name of Trafford.
They print on demand, which cuts down on costs substantially, they fulfill, and do a fine
job overall. My friends who have worked with them were very happy with their experience.

The website is trafford.com/

HTH

Tim

For twenty years I’ve taught nonfiction writing courses at the university level. Each year, I gather the students’ final essays and make an anthology of them. In the early days, I created the final product with desktop publishing software. Then I began to give them PDF files and said, if you want hard copy, go find a printer.

I think that latter course would be a way for you to go, Keith. Make the collection up via Scrivener, export to Word, do final formatting (and insert pictures), and render it as a PDF. Then it’s off to a printer, and either present the hard copies as gifts or ask the childrens’ families to defray costs with cash (or bottles of gin) to the teacher-publisher.

I suggest seeing if you can get a printer to donate some/all printing costs as part of being of service to the school/community. Don’t know if this works in England (are you in England?). Here in the U.S., I would contact traditional printers as well as copy shops like FedEx Kinkos. You might be able to convince a manager of a local FedEx Kinkos to discount heavily the price of printing out booklets. Photocopy documents look very professional these days. You even can choose the kind of binding you want.

As for preparing the document (i.e., typesetting), you can use Word or InDesign to create the booklet of, say 100 pages. The question is, what size pages are you going to use (8.5 x 11 or 5.5 x 8.5)? Also, what kind of booklet are you creating? If you print out a 100 page book to single sheets of 8.5 x 11, printing front and back, going from page 1 to 100, the task is simple. Just print out the number of 100-page sets (each set is actually 50 sheets printed front and back) and bind each set.

However, let’s say you want to create a booklet that is 5.5 x 8.5. In either Word or InDesign you can define the page as 5.5 x 8.5 and create a file that runs sequentially from page 1 to 100. However, printing to individual 5.5 x 8.5 sheets is either wasteful and expensive (at printers) or impossible (at copy shops). The suggested approach is to use sheets of 8.5 x 11 paper in landscape orientation, and to print two 5.5 x 8.5 pages side by side on each side of the sheet. The printed sheets are then folded into booklets. But for this to work the file used for printing or copying must be imposed, which means that the individual 5.5 x 8.5 pages must be rearranged for printing so that the pages will appear in correct sequence after the booklet is assembled.

InDesignCS3 has a feature that allows you print (to PDF) an imposed version of the booklet. I don’t think Word allows you to impose pages during printing to PDF file (not 100% sure).

If you create a PDF file of the booklet that is not imposed, then you will need a rather expensive plug in ($400– $600) for Acrobat, like PitStop Professional or Quite Imposing, to do the imposing. Whatever method you use to impose the booklet, you then take the imposed PDF file to the printer for printing. I suppose it is possible to give a traditional printer a non-imposed PDF file and let him do the imposing (I’m not sure a copy shop like FedEx Kinko’s is set up to do it). Or, if you know a professional typesetter or graphic artist, perhaps he/she will impose the file for you. It takes less than a minute to impose a document if the document is set up properly.

arashi

Thank you very much for your replies and suggestions so far.

Siren - I completely agree that many boys much prefer writing non-fiction, and that one of the reasons they get turned off writing is that a large portion of them just don’t like writing stories, especially the stuff they are asked to write - traditional stories, myths and legends and so forth. Add to this the fact that they are actively discouraged by many to write stories with violence in them and they soon lose interest. Unfortunately, the National Curriculum and Literacy Framework dictate that all children have to learn about and write certain genres. Story writing is a big part of this, so there’s no way around it as a teacher. Frankly, it baffles me why we are expected to teach 5-11 year-olds what “genre” means, how to write for different audiences, how to write openings, build-ups and climaxes, what non-chronological writing is and so forth. It’s so all over the place and full of jargon that won’t impinge on many of the children’s real lives that it’s no wonder they get put off. At the primary age, I really believe we should just be focussing on getting the children to see the point of writing and to enjoy it and want to do it well, but hey, what do I know? I don’t work for the government. :unamused: The strategies are changing, though, and one job I have this summer is to get to grips with the new Primary Frameworks, which I hope will allow more freedom. On top of that, my school is as of next year taking a more topic-oriented approach rather than the discrete “And now we are doing literacy hour which has no relation to anything else” approach of the past which, to my mind, has done so much damage (though I do understand why the introduced it, as prior to that teachers were doing whatever they wanted).

Anyway…

I’ll have a look at trafford.com. If I can help it, I don’t want to have to ask for parental contributions for the books because my school mostly takes children from the local estate, so they don’t have much money.

Any other suggestions much appreciated - I’ve got six weeks to look into it. :slight_smile:

Thanks again and all the best,
Keith

In the UK, Lulu is pretty much the only viable POD solution. On the bright side, I’ve heard a lot of people praise their quality. [EDIT TO ADD: I wasn’t aware trafford.com now has a UK operation. I’m not familiar with their prices or quality.]

The previous suggestion of using a local printer may not be a bad one - smaller printers take pride in being a part of their community, and you might find them more amenable than you expect - especially if you allow them to place their own ad on the last page :wink:

FYI, the closest thing Lulu has to mass market paperback size is 4.25" x 6.875" (about 3/4" smaller in both dimensions than my copies of the Alex Rider books, for example).

Assuming the book runs to 100 pages and you need 30 copies, the Lulu price is £3.77 per book. 60 copies brings it down slightly to £3.68 per book.

The cost calculator is at lulu.com/products/books/paperback.php in the left navbar.

Keith,

maybe you want to check out NaNoWriMo? They have a Young Writers Program too.

nanowrimo.org/modules/cjayco … .php?id=34

Last year(s?) lulu.com offered a free copy to Nano ‘winners’.

lulu.de/help/index.php?fSymb … angCode=EN

You can find postings about experiences with lulu.com in the NaNo forums. For instance:

nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/ … SC&start=0

Ursula

I’ve used Lulu myself in the past. I would never use it to actually try to sell a book, but I like to get hard copies of some of my work now and then that looks professional…just vanity, I’m sure, but it’s fun.

Anyway, I had a good experience with them. The book looked great, great quality, and the price was just the cost of production. No complaints.

Ye Gods, I was born in the wrong place.

And article about a junior high writing competition:

Power of the Pen

I have had the pleasure of getting to know Beth Richards as a writer and an organizer during the past two years. She is the regional coordinator for Power of the Pen, and also writes for Findlay Living. A member of Sisters in Crime, she is also an aspiring novelist. Welcome to the blog, Beth! Judy

Let’s test your writing skills. Ready? I’m going to give you a prompt, something like, “Second chances-write about one you regretâ€

Somethings I can suggest. I have worked in the printing industry all my life and two things that can eat your budget quickly is layout and fixing mistakes (editing).

FIrst and formost shop around!
Ask the printer/publisher if they charge EXTRA for customer supplied artwork or layouts. A lot of vanity printers and Self Publishers tend to try to lock you in expensive packages that are custom. So check with your printer/publisher first!

If they accept customer supplied artwork/layout some money saving tips are:

(1) Have someone lay your book out in a either Quark or Indesign to the size requirements of your printer/publisher. To find this out ask for a Spec sheet on layout/printing. Most printers/publishers have these and can send them to you free of charge. Give this to your layout person.

(2) After you lay out the book check it over very carefully. Sometimes it helps to make a “dummy” or mock up of the book. This is good for visual refrence for the printer and for you. You might find after assembling your “dummy proof” that the layout needs adjusting for better flow. This also helps a printer know EXACTLY how you intend the book to look.

(3) Have your book in different formats available on Disc. (Native Quark/Indesign Files and also PRESS QUALITY PDF to actual size and layout).

That way when you submit your book to a printer/publisher it is already set to their requirements and will speed up the process and cut the cost for you. In lamen terms you are submitting “Camera Ready Artwork”. Doing something in MS Publisher or Word most of the times doesn’t count as “Camera Ready” and a printer will adjust the cost to how much trouble they have setting it for the press.

A couple of ways to save money doing a DIY project like this are:

(1) Artwork. Ok so your not an artist what do you do? Go down to your local college and see if they have an art department. Talk to the Head of the department and as if you can have a “competition” for a book cover design/artwork. Offer a small cash prize. A lot of art departments would jump at the chance to do this because it gives them first hand experience in working with a client. Also this gives you around 30+ upcoming artists competing to give you their best design possible. So you help the community and they help you. This saves you a lot of money on artistic design and gives a student a chance to show real work in their portfolio.

(2) Layout. You can check with artists in the field, Local Print shops, or Students that are in the Commercial Art/Printing Field and see if they would be eager to layout your book by the specs you received from your printer/publisher.

(3) Asking about price breakdowns on Quantity.
Most printers go by a set amount of quantity.

Usually it goes 500, 1000, 1500, 2500, 5,000 10,000 and so forth.

Ask the printer what the Quanity Price Breakdowns they offer.

Most people don’t realize that sometimes 350 printed items would cost the same as 500 and they are paying the same price. A printer is going to give you what you request so sometimes it helps to ask up front where your price breakdowns are in Quantity.

A simple phrase to remember is this when asking for a printing quote on something.

“What are the Quantity price breakdowns for this item and what would the COST PER PIECE be at each quantity?”

You ask this because lets say you want 100 books and the cost for 100 books is $989.00 and the next quantity breakdown price is 250 so 250 books costs $1,379.00.

100 books would cost you $9.89 per book to make.
250 books would cost you $5.52 per book to make.

That could make all the difference in the world if you plan to sell them.

Also it can help you determine what the best Quantity price breakdown is for you.

Example

100 Books @ $989.00
250 Books @ $1379.00
350 Books @ $1,999.00
500 Books @ $2,699.00

Now

100 Books @ $989.00 - $9.89 per book
250 Books @ $1379.00 - $5.52 per book
350 Books @ $1,999.00 - $5.71 per book
500 Books @ $2,699.00 - $5.40 per book

So with that scenario a budge minded person would either go for the 250 or the 500 quote but avoid the 100 and 350.

Hope this helps.

Sorry for the Novel
If there are ever any “Printing Questions” Like how to make a Good dummy or Tips on self publishing and cheap ways to get started. I can answer them if needed.

Thanks a lot, Wock; that’s all very useful and interesting!

As far as the designing of the layout is concerned, the only tools you mention are Quark and InDesign. But there’s also FrameMaker. Adobe itself recommends FrameMaker “for complex and text-intensive, long documents and technical publication and documentationâ€

I’ve mentioned this here before, but I had fantastic success using MultiMarkdown -> PDFLaTeX -> PDF -> lulu.com.

I printed a friend’s PhD thesis in a 6x9 hardcover format, and was very impressed with the results. I modified the memoir class a tiny bit to customize some layout, and there were one or two places (in a 130 page book) that I hand tweaked the line spacing to make it look better.

Otherwise latex handled everything (bibliography, etc) perfectly.

I used photoshop to design the cover.

I have mentioned some of this on my web site, and am happy to answer questions.

You post a difficult question to answer fully so I will be as honest as possible.

It truly depends on a few things.
Framemaker is geared towards long intensive text documents and technical documents and handles it best. This is true. But look over the features list in Framemaker 8 and you will see that the direction they seem to be heading in development for features in Framemaker 8 are DIGITAL features or multimedia. Dynamic media like flash etc. Reason. More and more technical writing such as manuals and help documents, etc or going towards a more “paperless” route. Where as it is presented to the reader via a digital media (Web, Intranet, CD/DVD, etc) and they offer more features geared towards that media. They also offer PDF export (Excellent) for the option to go the old fashion route. Printing on paper. More and more companys are no longer giving out “printed” manuals and documentation. Instead they are offer a “Digital Solution” that allows for rich media inside the documents themselves (Training videos, interactive presentations, etc.) So Framemaker is following the market you could say in that they are heading in the direction of a more “paperless” technical writing solution. They offer PDF output for publishing purposes which is really nice but that also serves the digital drive because most manuals, etc are coming in PDF format for the consumer to have the option to print out the pages they wish.

On the other side of the coin is InDesign. InDesign is a Layout/Design tool whose main purpose is for prepress or a “Paper Solution”. Its main strength is for designing for PRINT. Now in CS3 they have improved a lot of the long document and text features (more info in reviews below). But what makes InDesign really shine is it’s ability to prepare a document for PRINTING. :slight_smile:

You wouldn’t want to type a book in Indesign, although you could if that is all you had, rather you would take your writing from other applications (Like Scrivener) and prepare your project for output. You have more control on how everything appears in InDesign CS3 than any other program out there and its ability to import all types of files and its native ability to handle PDF files is uncanny. If you have the CS3 Suite then you have illustrator which is the defacto standard in Vector Drawing programs. So you have a PDF from another source you can either choose to use Acrobat Professional or you can open it directly into Illustrator and edit it.

Another approach that Indesign has is building a “Book Project” which instead of having your whole book in one IND document you would have it say broken down by chapters. Each chapter being a separete document. You would then bring the chapter documents into a book project and have things like auto page numbering, page numbering by section, master pages assigned to sections, section numbering, TOC, Indexes, and a whole slew of other features available.

So to get around the “Long Document” problem many applications have the approach is to handle it in sections. Like how Scrivener works.

You can then import all your text in and “style it” how you want and then PDF the files out for a “Digital Book” or you can take your native files and do what is called “Packaging” which is really nice for prepress outsourcing. What this does is it makes a copy of your document into a new “project” folder, it then scans ALL FONTS used in the document and copies them from your hard drive into a folder called FONTS inside your new “projects folder” it also scans all imported graphics from wherever you linked from and copies them into a LINKS folder inside your project folder. It preflights this process and WARNS you of problems like a graphic that was placed but cannot be found, etc.

It also creates a text document that has instructions that you fill out in a window that has things like comments, directions, contact info, etc.

So in other words you have this 900 page Tech manual with color charts, graphics, photos, and tables. You used some weird font you downloaded off the internet from a website that no longer exists. And you are not a Graphic artists and have no clue about the printing industry at all. You did layout it out in InDesign to the correct size and margins and specs your printer gave you but you have no clue how to get it from your computer to a REAL paper printed Book

Simple. You do this in Four simple steps.

Step 1 Create a folder on your desktop. This will be your “Project folder” <I name mine [Title of the book]-Package>

Step 2
You Export your InDesign Document in PDF format using the preset PDF Style nicely named PRESS QUALITY. Click ok and save it to your “Project Folder.”

Step 3
You use the Package For Prepress feature from the Indesign Menu. The first thing that happens is it asks you where to save it. (Save dialog).
You select the “Project folder”. It will then prompt you with an “Instructions” Dialog Window. Fill out the appropriate fields (Especially the Contact Info!) and put any special instructions in the comments box. (Example.[color=brown]Note on page 397 is a picture I had some problems with. If it looks terrible or illegiable please stop printing and call me ASAP!)

Once you are done and the prefilght checks ok it will do all the work. Then you look inside your project folder and you will see three things. (1) Your High Quality PDF. (2) A folder named whatever you saved the Indesign Document as. Inside that folder will be a copy of the Original InDesign Document, a Fonts Folder with copies of every single font you used in your document. INCLUDING! That really weird one you downloaded from a website that longer exists! :slight_smile:. Also it will have copied all the graphics, charts, tables, etc that you placed into InDesign from WHEREVER you them saved! and places them all in a Folder named Links.
(3) A text file named Instructuions.txt that will have all the information you filled out in the dialog box :slight_smile:

Step Four is the most difficult of all steps. First you determine how BIG your Project Folder is. If it can fit on a CD burn it to CD. If it’s to big for a CD then Burn it onto a DVD. If it is too big for a DVD you copy it onto a portable Firewire/USB HD. Print out your instructions.txt file

Then you deliver said media and your instruction sheet (instructions.txt) to your printer/publisher’s art department and go home and drink beer.

And you can enjoy your beer because your phone won’t ring with your printer on the other line angry because something is missing. Nope your only worries will be the temperature of your beer and whats on tv.

The layout department has everything they need such as origianl fonts, pictures, instructions, etc all on that one disc and you didn’t have to go hunting around through all the font folders trying tofigure out where you installed that weird font. You also didn;t have to write down and remember where all your ORIGINAL placed pictures, graphics, charts, tables, etc. were and copy them over. Nope package did all that for you in a matter of seconds.

None of those hated phone calls like "This picture is low resolution and we need the original. Or “We don’t have that font and will have to subsitute it with another” etc. etc. etc. Which is usualy the plague of problems people have when bring a file from home to a printer. This cause delays and increases prices!.

But see with packaging Adobe makes you a real CAMERA READY ART person. You will floor the artists and be given a grudging respect when you walk into a printshop/art department because all you need is the media you copied your project folder on and your printed instructions sheet of paper (just in case the layout person fails to read the instrucitons.txt) and if they lose the instructions and call you calmy set your beer down and tell them to printout the instructions.txt file on your media and then hang up and continue with your beer.

I will say this. InDesign is Adobe’s “Quark Killer” and it is doing exactly that. So for the next few years at least Adobe will be making sure it runs as smooth as possible and will be supporting it for that same reason. They will make sure it’s development is timely and rich full of features because they are depending on it to galavanize their position in being the Software Copmany for Digital Design in print and for media Rich DIGITAL design. Now since InDesign is becoming a DeFacto Standard in the PRinting industry you can pretty much guarantee that about every printshop/publisher will support submission of Indesign Files. If not they can use the PDF files.

Framemaker on the other hand is more of a niche piece of software that is still being developed but in my opinion it is heading in a more “DIGITAL PRESENTATION” direction in its development. Also since it is niche it is NOT as widely available and supported by printshops and publishers so your choices will be limited for native file submission and you would mainly have to use the PDF file submission method.

Also you have to be careful what Adobe’s path indevelopment is. You will notice that InDesign is starting to obtain “Framemaker” features and down the road Framemaker may morph into a completly digital solution or Adobe may pull a fast one on you and drop it complelty and push the “Technical Writers” towards the CS Suite and Indesign just like they Did to web developers with CS3 release (Adobe dropped Image Ready and no longer develops it. They now recomeend using Fireworks)

In the end I would say that overall you would probably benefit more in the long run from InDesign CS3 because of its wide range of abilities where as Framemaker puts you into a niche that may become vaporware down the road because in the end Adobe’s number one goal right now is to sink the Quark ship. They already have the web design development market becuase they bought macromedia. In doing that in the past year they have stopped development on GoLive and dropped it completely because they now own Dreamweaver. They dropped Image Ready because they own Fireworks. And they dropped Freehand because of Illustrator. The only thing really competing with them in Web/Print Design and Layout is Quark. So Adobe is fully focused on taking over that market completely. They have everything else BUT complete domainance in Page Layout (Quark Xpress). Now Quark is hurting bad and is falling from grace. Quark 7 is bug ridden and full of crud. They are already on 7.3 and still can’t squash the problems. People are jumping ship over to the Adobe camp and Adobe is going to do everything they can to get people to switch from Quark to InDesign so they are going to put ALL their effort over the next 5 years in making Indesign a solid application and full of every feature you could dream of.

WEB PUBLISHING INDUSTRY STANDARDS
Dreamweaver - Adobe
Cold Fusion - Adobe
PDF - Adobe but becoming open standard
Fireworks - Adobe
Flash - Adobe

PRINT PUBLISHING/DESIGN INDUSTRY STANDARDS
Photoshop - Adobe
Illustrator - Adobe
Acrobat PDF - Adobe
InDesign - Adobe
Quark Xpress - Quark

Macworld Review (Indesign CS3)
macworld.com/2007/04/reviews … /index.php

Creative Pro.com Review (Indesign CS3) Detailed review on many features
creativepro.com/story/review/25413.html

A forum posting on the MacWorld Review.

[code]I have to disagree somewhat with the review writer here.
Having used FrameMaker for some 15 years for long and complex documenting projects, it seems to me that InDesign CS3 WILL ACTUALLY MOVE IN TO NEW GROUNDS, namely that of FrameMaker´s. (I would call InDesign CS 3 as v. 1.0, to stirr up some conversation.)
Especially the list and numbering, table style features and text variables will make InDesign CS3 a formidable competitor for long document production.
Although some things are missing in text variables and cross-referencing (as stated by the writer). One omission (vs. FrameMaker) that comes to mind is the ability to AUTOMATICALLY assign a master page when a certain paragraph tag is present.

Our little design firm has up to this point used InDesign (Quark before that) for graphical design projects and FrameMaker for long-doc assignments.

I have to say that I find NO REASON ANYMORE TO USE FRAMEMAKER!
(Though some others may still need it for a long time, SGML and so on)
Boy, have I wished for this to happen!

GREAT STUFF[/code]

That was a direct quote from a user on the Macworld Forum (post 12)
macworld.com/forums/ubbthrea … =collapsed

I can gie tips on this but for now my short forum novel has grown to such a length I may fear Keith may ban me for typing such a wall of text. :slight_smile: So I will post tips on dummy making soon. (Maybe I will make a PDF and just post a link so users don’t ahve to look at Wock Novels of Boring Stuff.

:slight_smile:

Hope that helps.

PS: YOu can download Free trials of Both the Framemaker and Indesign CS3 if I remember correctly. Maybe try them both out and decide for yourself what may best fit your needs. In the end it all depends on your own personal likes and needs.

Thanks a lot, Wock, for your thorough and convincing (so it seems to me) explanation. I’ve read it carefully through, together with the reviews on MacWorld you’re referring to, and now I’m confident that with InDesign I’ll make a good choice.

To be true, I am in no urgent need of a tool like InDesign: I usually send my manuscripts as a simple pdf or rtf to my publishers, and they take care of the layout and all the rest.

But … I love beautiful, well designed and well printed books. And in my experience, many publishers of the present day, including publishers in the scientific realm, who publish no doctor novels, but books destined to last, are not really interested in making beautiful books. They are interested in making beautiful profits. In the catalogues of highly esteemed publishers nowadays it is not difficult to find thin books with a high price, which on closer inspection are rather poorly designed and printed, on rather cheap paper.

Recently, I have gone through some rather disappointing experiences in this field, and I find it a challenge to try to design the layout of my next book myself, and to deliver it ready for printing to my publisher. I’ll begin with some readers for my students, and we’ll see where it ends!