Considering buying, but lack of "Mac" features [answered]

I notice the Windows version lacks a lot of the core functions the Mac version has.

Specifically, the first one I ran into was the Template feature, which does not at all work like the Mac version. When could one reasonably expect this, and other features in the Windows build?

I feel like the Windows version has only about half the power of the Mac version. The core functionality is still there, but so is any word processor. Scrivener is definitely hands down a bonus for writers, but not, in my opinion, worth the cost for Windows users.

If the price was ~$20 USD, I would definitely consider it, but definitely not for double that as it stands.

Looking for feedback from the development team or those in the know, thanks!

Well, Scriv for Windows was only aimed at being Mac Scriv 1.0–it does meet and exceed that goal.

Not sure what you need as far as the Template setup–there’s a way to do it. There are details in the manual that explain how to do it. It may not be how the Mac does it, since I don’t use one and thus can’t speak for it, but it is doable. Less elegantly, perhaps.

Not worth the cost for Windows users?!?! Ok, this is where I get all annoyed at you. Don’t presume to speak for every Windows user, friend. SfW is a huge, wonderful program that helps out many Windows users. Ok, yes, I don’t know the wonders of the Mac version, because I don’t use a Mac and have never had an opportunity to use any of the relatively recent 2.0 upgrades. Most of what you can’t get in Windows? Hasn’t been part of the Mac version all that long. And speaking as a SfW user, looking at the list of what the SfM gets that I don’t get, there’s maybe a couple of items I really want, a handful more that I’d use if they were there but don’t resent not having, and the rest are just gravy. Scriv does everything that THIS Windows user wants and more. So it is worth the cost for me. And probably a couple other Windows users.

To make this much more constructive a post, whether or not you buy the Windows version I would think would depend on the following factors: is it worth it to you to be able to use your Scriv projects in a windows environment when your Mac one isn’t available, and is what’s missing something absolutely crucial to your process?

Only you can answer that.

And all the stuff that’s in ScrivMac 2.0 is coming for ScrivWin. The timeline is a fluid but steady forward progress. I’d guess that once they’ve got all the post-release bugs/tweaks done, and the holidays get over, we’ll start seeing some updates in the new year.

Jen

I’m sorry but I cannot agree with you. The Windows version is very much a worthwhile purchase for me as it provides much greater functionality than a word processor. The Mac version might have extra features but that is of no interest to me as I do not own a Mac – I base my judgment on the current development of Scrivener 1. The alternative would be to wait for Scrivener for Windows 2 to come out, but that would be to deny myself the benefits which v1 has brought me in flexibility and productivity. Speaking as a Windows user who has been using the software for some months, it is definitely worth the cost as its core functions are precisely those which I am looking for. If those aren’t sufficient for your needs then that is fair enough, but you cannot speak for all Windows users.

I wasn’t asking for anyone to agree, I stated the facts, that the windows version has fewer features than the current Mac version, and hence, should fairly cost half of that version. This is coming from a new user, so writing off my opinions (as I carefully stated that I felt it wasn’t worth the current price) is tantamount to saying “fine, don’t buy our product”, which I’m pretty sure the developer (being one myself) would rather have half the price rather than none at all.

I could be wrong, if you’re the developer and not a devout supporter, fill me in here.

All that being said, I was looking for developer feedback or someone who actually knew if/when the Mac features would be added.

Wait, so the Windows version, which has more features than the original Mac version, should cost $20 even though the original Mac version cost $40, what the Windows version does now? I think you are confusing what was actually a very generously priced $5 bump in the product cost for 2.x’s features with what the original should have been priced at. Fact is, this has always been roughly $40 software.

But anyway, “Who has more features” isn’t really a good metric for setting a price in the first place. It’s the overall use of the software that counts. A dirt simple utility that does one thing can be worth $40 if it saves your business tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a year. So trying to come up with a price tag based on a spreadsheet of feature lists is probably not the best mechanic. Otherwise the Mac version should cost $90, by your logic.

You said your opinion was that it wasn’t worth it for “Windows users,” not “not worth it for me.” No one was trying to write off your opinions with a handwave and a “then don’t buy it.” We were disagreeing at the notion that because your opinion was that it was only half complete, then it wasn’t worth it to Windows users.

I think if the only answers you’re interested in are the developers, it would be worth writing to the developers directly, not to a forum that is as much one supported by users because the responses you get are going to include those from people who aren’t developers.

That being said, and probably not worth much to you, I frequent these forums quite regularly and I don’t remember there being any posting of an official timeline. There’s a lot in the works, and as I said, it’s probably going to start coming in updates after the first of the year. There’s still some release bugs that have snuck past the community (many of whom were active beta testers). I know that the goal is to get to all of the features as soon as possible.

The Mac 1.0 version was a full priced version. Windows 1.0 (which is the same with some bonuses as the Mac 1.0) is also a full priced version. There’s certainly some features that aren’t in the Windows version yet, but I still disagree with your assertion that it is only half of the Mac version. Because all the major parts are there, the things that make Scrivener different from other products.

I stand by what I said: only you can decide if it is worth it to you. If you’re worried about getting certain features, than you would be better off waiting. I suggest you do a good look at what is “missing” from the Windows version before you make any declarations as to it not being “worth” it to Windows Users or yourself, because I think you’ll find that the Win 1.0 is a lot more feature-complete than you think.

Jen

I agree. The price of this software is fair, considering what you’d pay for the bloat of Word and it’s a lot less useful to writers. I was happy to pay what I paid for it and would have paid more without question. I always find people who moan about features not being present are generally more into messing about with the program rather than using it for writing. I have no time to wonder or prod about in Scrivener looking for what it has or dosen’t have because I am too busy actually writing to care about things like templates. Templates for what? I started with a blank sheet (like you do) and am now close to finishing my second novel ( currently at 89000 words in six weeks on the Scrivmeister). I haven’t read the manual either. I don’t have time to. If I need something I’ll find it or work it out as I go. I got behind the wheel of this great new car and said to the salesman, how do I indicate left and right and how do I stop. I didn’t need to know anything else. Start typing, you may find all those features you’re obsessing about, but why bother when you could be doing what this great piece of software was designed for.

Before the Windows beta showed up, and even before version 2 of Scrivener for Mac came out, a number of writers thought that $40 + the cost of a brand new mac was worth it to get fewer features than you have now with the Windows version.

So if the features are really that important to you, consider that for a mere $1,039, you could have Scrivener 2, plus a free 11" Macbook Air. What a bargain!

Dang it! No one told me about that deal before I bought the Windows version.
/Rage mode on!

:slight_smile:

Jen

The cost comparison would be fair if you were comparing competing products. Will I buy Scrivener 1.0 for $40? Or Scrivener 2.0 for $45? Well, obviously I’d buy Scrivener 2.0.

They’re not competing products, unfortunately. People that use Macs have Scrivener 2.0 as their option and people that use Windows have Scrivener 1.0 as their option for now. So if you’re looking for software to assist in your writing, compare Scrivener 1.0 to things like WriteWay or yWriter or Word or other tools.

For me, I think a major problem with my writing before was because I didn’t have Scrivener. Getting Scrivener, honestly, is what got me to complete my first novel. Halfway through the rewrite now and Scrivener makes it easy to see that I’m missing a whole plotline I needed, and help me wind it in with its corkboards and whatnot.

I do have a Mac for work and I’ve seen Scrivener on the Mac, so I know where the OP is coming from. Coming home to my Windows I do get the feeling of “Oh, crap, this is not as slick as the Mac one and I wish I could use the popup reference notes” and so on.

But Windows is the computer I use for my personal stuff; that’s what I have available. So when I want to write and finish my novel I have to compare Scrivener to whatever else I have available on Windows. Word or Open Office could possibly actually work better for what you need. When I write 1,000 word articles, I use Word.

One view to take is that the Mac version has twice the features and stability and so forth, so the Windows version should cost half as much. In reality, the Windows version is being developed by a separate team than the Mac version and will have to support itself in sales (though initial development, I’m sure, had to be subsidized by Mac version profits). Hence, you need a price tag that is (a) competitive in the market and (b) supports its own development.

Another way to look at it is that the Mac version should be twice as much, so they should just make Mac owners pay $80. :slight_smile: Honestly, I’d have paid $80 for it (though it may have taken me longer to break down and purchase it).

My response to the original message would have to be “Don’t feed the Trolls”.

Well said :=)
I think the price of Scrivener is really honnest.

I sent a message to the support team and got an actual response days ago. I should have known better than to use a forum full of fan boys for support questions initially :wink:

Well, I hope you don’t need any support questions answered in the future, because with that attitude, the “fan boys” probably won’t be inclined to answer you with that attitude.

Hey! I was being very helpful, thank you very much!

An alternative approach to achieve parity with most people using Scrivener 2 is to go back in time up to about 4 or 5 years, buy a mac in pre-recession dollars, buy Scrivener 1 for Mac. Wait several years until something worth your time was coming, and finally pay another $25 for the upgrade last year.

Do I have to do all of the problem solving here? :unamused:

To expand on Ioa’s point…
In other words, you use a weighted average comparison of the feature lists based on the use of those features to you.
So, a few things to consider:

  1. The version number of Mac might be twice as large as the version number of the Windows version, but the number of features isn’t doubled. In fact, there are only a few things missing from the Windows version.
  2. In terms of weighted average usefulness of features, the core functionality of the two platform versions is esentially identical. So you could argue that in terms of usefulness, Windows is probably >95% the functionality of the Mac.
  3. Regarding whether the Windows version is overpriced, the empirical evidence of the number of people who bought the software would suggest that you have a disconnected sense of value to the rest of the Scrivener audience.

Bottom line?
Think about comparative value sensibly for a second. What are you getting for your money? How much (lasting?) benefit does it give you compared to other products?
Go into ‘WHSmiths’ and buy a 4 pack of cheap biros and an feint ruled A4 refill pad. You’ll get maybe a pound change from a tenner these days. Are you seriously saying that WinScriv is worth only 2 A4 pads and a couple of biros?
Go into a Starbucks and buy a coffee. What’s that, £3 these days? So a lifelong WinScriv license is worth only 4 coffees to you in terms of pleasure, productivity boost, and other benefits?

Think about it another way: If you halved the cost of WinScriv you would half the amount of revenue L&L would get from each sale. Let’s assume that all the revenue goes straight into the profit pot to be distributed to the developers. If you halve the price, you need to double your sales for the developers to make the same ‘salaries’.
(This ignores the fact that businesses have fixed costs that need to covered, and also ignores the fact that extra users means extra technical support - both of which would mean that L&L would have to do much more than double their sales to make the same profit).
So, If you think that L&L should halve the cost of WinScriv are you saying that you think by doing so L&L will more than double the number of people who buy it? Or are you saying that they are earning too much?

As a final point, if you really think that the WinScriv version is only worth $20, then there is a way… You just need to wait until next November, enter NaNoWriMo, complete 50,000 words before 31 Nov, and then use the 50% discount code that winners get. Assuming that L&L sponsors the competition again next year, of course.

Or use Liquid Story Binder for Windows and Scrivener for Mac? :stuck_out_tongue:

I find the suggestion that someone buy a Mac specifically for writing with Scrivener Hilarious (with a capital H). Most of the people who responded multiple times appeared to take personal offense that I offered a critique that perhaps their product was not perfect from an outside viewpoint. I also don’t make a habit of prostrating myself and saying things like “I felt like” when I am clearly making a personal statement (like in a forum post).

In the end though, I was really looking forward to simply purchasing when the full set of features was introduced into the Windows version, and perhaps looking for a discounted Windows version until that time.

Edit: I already have a Mac and Scrivener.

Your Hilarity is noted, although the reality is that people do indeed make hardware decisions based on the software they wish to use. Musicians may choose to buy a Mac because they wish to use Logic, for example. Many photographers switch to Mac because they want to use Aperture. These are decisions made by professionals who realise what hardware is for: it’s for running software. As such, when you are using a computer for a specific purpose - eg you are (or want to be) a writer - then it’s perfectly reasonable to switch to Mac so you can use a particular program rather than sweat your old Windows machine a year or two longer and use something that doesn’t suit your personal workflow quite as well.

That’s for professionals, anyway.

But even ignoring all of that, plenty of people switched to Macs for no better reason than the iPod was popular (of course, they bought their second Mac for entirely different reasons). Capitalising on this well publicised ‘halo effect’ was a significant part of Apple’s marketing strategy. So, not only is “the suggestion that someone buy a Mac specifically for writing with Scrivener” not that “Hilarious”, it is one of the more sensible reasons for doing so.

I’m glad I could offer some amusement. :slight_smile: Although, I’ve been here long enough to note that on multiple occasions, people have come to the forums for the sole purpose of advising Keith to start an affiliate program with Apple, because Scrivener was the driving motivation in them buying a Mac. For really-real. I’m not kidding.

I think the primary annoyance expressed is from you saying it’s not worth $40 because it didn’t implement version 2’s feature set. Those of us who hang around here mostly for the amusement factor and to learn new bits about Scrivener are very appreciative of the hard work that Keith and now Lee have put into Scrivener on their preferred platforms. That Lee has been toiling away for multiple years (before Mac v2 was finished, I might add) to implement an ever-evolving feature set is also noted and defended when WinScriv is criticized, not for bugs, but for lack of features/being over-priced.

Also, only one person who gets money from Lit & Lat has offered any defense, and he was the most even-handed of the bunch. The rest of us view Scrivener like we might view our neighbor who built a full-sized pirate ship replica instead of a regular house to live in. We offered suggestions, asked nicely that the cannons not be pointed at our windows, but in general, we eagerly awaited it’s completion, and helped in small ways with it’s construction.

Then someone moves into the neighborhood, looks around, and says, “Nice neighborhood… except for that stupid ship-house!” To which we say, “Avast! Prepare to be boarded!” and then ready the cannons.

In short: We like our little corner of the internets, and if you don’t like what you see in some part of it, please just move along and check back later. The good ship WinScriv will be in dry-dock for a while acquiring the opulence that ye olde MacScriv has accumulated over her years of service.

The main thing I took offense to was your implication that since it wasn’t what you wanted, it wasn’t worth it for ANY Windows users. And then you followed it up with the assertion that anyone who wasn’t a developer didn’t have an opinion you wanted to listen to.

Being polite isn’t optional, even on the Internet–especially on the Internet where we lose over 70% of normal communication (voice inflections, body language, etc).