Double Space Export

Hi:

I cannot get double-spacing whenever I compile to docx. I have de-selected Preserve Format, and have Double Space as an export option. Any ideas?

Many thanks

Hi,

Compile to RTF for going to Word instead. There’s a bug in the standard OS X .doc and .docx exporters that Scrivener users, which causes double-spacing and indents to get lost (the same happens when you save to .docx from TextEdit).

Thanks,
Keith

Thanks for the quick reply. I loose page breaks that way.

You shouldn’t do - RTF fully supports page breaks. Unless you are opening it in Pages - Pages has really poor RTF support unfortunately.
All the best,
Keith

Got it. If I edit the compiled manuscript in Text Edit then save, will people on MS PC’s still see the page breaks etc.?

Thanks

They will, but TextEdit isn’t a fully-featured word processor and so will lose other formatting, such as headers, footers, footnotes and comments (when you open a file in TextEdit, it will strip those things, even though Scrivener includes them). If you only have Pages, one option is to download OpenOffice (which is free) and just use it as a converter. OpenOffice does a great job of open RTF files with headers, footers, page breaks and suchlike intact, and does a much better job than Scrivener at saving as .doc, I believe. So you could open your RTF file in OpenOffice, then save as .doc, then open the resulting .doc file in Pages for further editing. That should work at least.

Unfortunately Pages is the most difficult word processor to support, which is ironic given that it is Apple’s own. But the .doc and .docx formats are massively complex and it’s very difficult for a single developer such as myself to write my own importers and exporters for them (it would take months!), and the ones Apple provide out of the box are buggy, as you’ve seen. RTF on the other hand, although capable of everything these other formats are capable of in terms of storing footnotes, headers, comments, images and so on, is easier to support. But Pages supports .doc and .docx really well (Apple must have written different importers and exporters to the ones they provide developers), but has poor RTF support. And Apple don’t make the .pages format public, so it’s not possible to support it directly.

All other major word processors have great RTF support, though - Nisus Writer, Mellel, OpenOffice, and of course Word, all open RTF files with almost all formatting intact. In the Windows world, RTF is the most common format following the Word formats, in fact.

All the best,
Keith

Many thanks for the detailed response, and the great piece of software.

Best regards,

Hey, as a note, I’ve found that the free Mac word processor Bean works as a TextEdit alternative. It’s RTF format, too, but it seems to work better than TextEdit.

I mainly use TextEdit like it’s a Notepad.

Bean is going to have many of the same limitations that TextEdit has in terms of RTF support. I could be wrong on this, but from what I’ve seen, it has better tools for accessing the features that already exist in TextEdit, but does not offer any further RTF features. It will still wipe out headers/footers, footnotes, and comments. While Bean does offer a header/footer feature, it is not actually doing real headers/footers—and you’ll note it isn’t even a document formatting thing, it is an application preference. These will not be saved into the RTF file, nor will any existing header/footers be correctly interpreted upon open.

I’ve got nothing against Bean, it’s great for what it does, but it is basically a bit like the WordPad interface/mod applications in Windows. It puts a better face on the engine, but the underlying engine is the same, and so as a way of getting around the engine’s limitations, not useful.

Definitely get it if you use TextEdit like a word processor though. :slight_smile: It’s a lot better.

I’ve not explored these .rtf options much, other than md => html => rtf, but I do prefer Abiword in lieu of Open or Neo Office, as it is much faster to open and comes readily to hand for document purposes. Have any Scrivenerati had Abiword experience as an .rtf => .doc/.docx mediator?

=GB=

Before NeoOffice and then OpenOffice became available on the Mac, I used AbiWord to handle .doc files. I remember finding it rather deficient, but that may well have been in the handling of Chinese, though my memory says it was rather slow. But that was at least 5 years back. I haven’t used it since.
What I do know is that about 3 years ago, or maybe less, Nisus switched from using the AbiWord .doc converter to that provided by OpenOffice as they found it more efficient, quicker and more capable.
The other thing is that OpenOffice itself is changing following Sun’s withdrawal from the project; OpenOffice under that name has now been taken over by Oracle, and a rival version now called LibreOffice is being launched by the open software people and is available in beta. To my mind, the Oracle version is by far the best in terms of interface appearance in comparison with LibreOffice and NeoOffice.
Furthermore, this last week I found I had to convert a Keynote presentation to .ppt to run on a windows box. Having exported it from Keynote, I need to check it in terms of fonts, sizing, transitions, etc. so started with LibreOffice … hopeless, it couldn’t handle it, but then it is an early beta. NeoOffice proved very difficult in trying to modify font sizes, to the point where it became a complete waste of effort. OpenOffice on the other hand, did the job apparently with ease, and the results were fine … given the limitations (as far as I am concerned) of .ppt.
I ran the .ppt on a windows box and all seemed fine; but when it came to doing the presentation, the machine in the lecture hall was running a newer version of MSOffice, I believe, and there were a few glitches of words which should have been in italics coming out in Arial instead of TNR (I think … though it might have been a newer and better Georgia … hard to tell on that interface) Italic, which was no great shakes. What really got up my nose was the UI of the version of PowerPoint in the lecture hall, where it was not at all clear how to run the slide-show … no button, no visible menu … one of my students had to tell me that one had to press F5! Gave me a chance to give them a few plaudits to the Apple UI!
But on the original question, I presume AbiWord must have improved, but I’d put my trust in the Oracle version of OpenOffice at the moment.
Mark

AbiWord is a decent word processor in a self-contained environment. I’d put it a bit below Mellel on that scale. Within its own format, it has a lot of great features, but while Mellel does a decent job of importing and exporting RTF files (and thus communicating with Word), AbiWord is not so hot, and since it can’t even import a good RTF file, who cares what it can do with .doc files. It strips about as much from the RTF as Pages strips: figures, footnotes, page headers/footers, and tables to mention a few.

If I had to choose between AbiWord and NeoOffice/OpenOffice, and I didn’t have to worry about Word users, I’d use AbiWord because it loads up in 3 seconds instead of 382 seconds, doesn’t crash much, and has a less intimidating interface.

Hi:

Saving as an RTF and opening and editing using Open Office is working a treat.

Thanks again.

Hi Hassata, if you were using Pages and have time, please leave feedback with Apple asking for better RTF support in Pages:

apple.com/feedback/pages.html

If Pages had as good RTF support as it does for .doc and .docx, going back and forth between Scrivener and Pages would be a breeze, and if I can improve their RTF reader, they could probably add decent support in a matter of days if they wanted to… (Whereas for me to improve the .doc or .docx export would take years. :slight_smile: )

Thanks!
Keith

NP Keith.

Edit: Done!

Thanks! Maybe one day they’ll listen to everyone I’ve pointed in that direction, and to my own pleas that I sent every year. :slight_smile:

We should organize a weekly “Request better Pages RTF support” submission event for everyone willing to put it on their calendars. Squeaky wheels attract more bees or however the saying goes. :stuck_out_tongue:

If you can’t steer the boat, you might as well get out the foot soldiers.