evaluation

i admitted i am convinced by several sources that scrivener is cookie cutter for writing. it is undeniable that it is very good for novel writer. For me, writing thesis or academic articles with scrivener is by far inferior to microsoft word 2013 in several dimensions.

First, i mainly use Thai language together with Eng language in parenthesis. the major problem is that i must alter font and size manually everytime when i switch language. isn’t it tedious?

Second, it can’t be divided in 2 or 3 column writing. this can be accomplished by adding invisible table, but it is quit clumsy. the most important thing is that i can’t make the distance between 2 columns accurate enough compared to other application like MS word or pages

Third, when dealing with typing math, it is easy to integrated mathtype in scrivener; However, it is horrible when compiling to other formats. i once compiled to docx and surprised that the boxes are replaced with my equation, thus i have to retype all equation again.

the next is the frustration when using endnote. it can’t automatically generate bibliography just like MS word that contain one click feature to generate bibliography. in scrivener, i have to convert to words before using the bibliography function. it is tedious.

Nevertheless, the best thing that scriverner can offer the writer is the concept of flexibility to manage the sequences by using binder. This is the marvellous feature! However, compared to cost of wasting time to manually change fonts and sizes everytime to switch language, to manage the format because of no native 2 column style, to retype all equation in word, and cant to finally use bibliography in word because of no biblography generating feature, i think it is not worth using scriver for writing thesis or academic articles.

Hope the feedback will help improve features and sorry for my English.

i will go back to use scrivener again if in the next version all of these obstacles are resolved!

i recommend the developer focus more on

  1. multiple language users that not use English as a main language (just like me)
  2. academic writing or dissertation because the environement of application now support ( eg. binder)
  3. bibliography management that must be easy to use (zotero or endnote or else)
  4. Math equation when compiling to doc
  5. Multiple column style

hope this can help improve your product ^^

Thanks for the feedback! We do have many academic users using Scrivener. I’m not aware of font problems like you describe, but we haven’t had much feedback from Thai users, so I wonder if this is something to do with that. We use the standard OS X text engine - do you have the same issues in TextEdit?

Regarding bibliographies, you can export to RTF and scan the RTF file using Endnote or whatever bibliography manager you use.

Unfortunately there is no way of maintaining the equations as equations in .doc format given the resources available to us, so they become straightforward PDF or image files. If we are able to improve this in the future, we will, but there is no solution available to us at the moment. We don’t have the same resources as Microsoft as we are a very small company, with just one programmer working on the Mac version (me).

All the best,
Keith

Thanks to produce valuable application like scrivener.
I think this kind of application can be very popular in Thailand, especially binder feature!

Do you have any suggestion to set scrivener to automatically change font&size when switching language.
i think my explanation is unclear, so sorry for that. ok let me elaborate the font problem again.

When i typed Thai language, it is ok. when i change to English language, it is ok. but i have to manually change font because the regulation require “time new roman font 16pt” for english and " th saraban font 18pt" for THai

The problem is everytime i switch language, i have to change font again. but, this is easily to overcome in MS word because i can pre set the default language in both Eng and Thai. when i change language, it is automatically change font to match the presetting.

i appreciate your williningness to develop the powerful tools and understand the limited resources. i will tell my friends to support your product.

Hope at least the multiple font setting will be resolved in the upcoming version.

The problem with language switching occurs in all applications using Apple’s text engine. To get around this when working in Scrivener, when I want to switch to a different script I first type an extra space, move back one space with the left arrow, switch to the other script (and font), and when I have finished typing in that script, switch back to the original script and move forward one space with the right arrow, at which point I am back with the original font. Although slightly cumbersome (but not as cumbersome as it may sound), this at least obviates the need to change fonts manually. It doesn’t solve the problem concerning the use of different font sizes for different scripts, but if the final formatting is going to be done in another application anyway, I don’t think this is such a big problem (apart from aesthetic considerations).

I too switch between two languages with totally different glyph requirements in my case — English and Chinese — so I am aware of this issue. I think there are two things:

(1) While editing, I do the same as rwg when I remember; this is merely for my own comfort when typing, as the roman glyphs included within the Chinese fonts are ugly and badly kerned, and Chinese punctuation conforms to the monospace nature of Chinese characters, leaving huge white spaces. When I forget to put in the space, immediately after returning to English and typing a word, I use the “Documents > Convert > Convert Formatting to Default Text Style”, for which I have set a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl-Cmd-h), the default text style being a roman font with it’s associated Chinese font.

(2) On the font size, my solution would be:

Firstly, this regulation of TNR 16pt for English — <ugh!> how ugly and over-large — and Saraban 18pt for Thai concerns the text you send on to whoever. I would leave this question until after you’ve compiled the final document.

Firstly, one of the features about Scrivener is that the fonts you edit in do not have to be the fonts you compile to, so you can edit in any font or size you wish … Papyrus 9pt and Thonburi 12pt or whtever you wish and then compile to something else. Secondly, if Thai fonts work like Chinese fonts and include the set of roman glyphs for English at least — looking at them in Linotype Font Explorer, I think most must do — then I would set your editing to use Saraban in whatever point size is comfortable for working on screen as default and use the Roman glyphs within that for English, if it has them. If not, I’d do the editing in Thonburi. If you’ve used a smaller size when editing, set the compiler to output in 18 point without changing the font family.

Thirdly, deal with the regulation TNR 16pt and Saraban 18pt in your word-processor after compiling. I don’t have Word and use Nisus Writer Pro. I’m sure you must be able to do it in Word somehow, but in NWP you can select a word in Thai and then ask it to select all text with similar characteristics and then change all the font and size settings at one go, and then do the same for English. In my case, this works well using Chinese and English. I have set up character styles for Chinese and English just for this purpose. You may have to experiment with Thai, though.

That’s how I’d go about solving your problem. The solution you are looking for from Scrivener will probably be quite some time coming, as it will depend on when Keith succeeds in programming in word-processor type “styles”, and even then I would guess the styles might only cover paragraphs rather than stretches within paragraphs.

Hope that helps. :slight_smile: