Hello, I already posted on Forward/Back buttons in a separate thread. That was a while back and I thought it would be easier to followup here. There are indeed forward and back buttons which I make good use of. Unfortunately I still fumble around for them even when I know that they are there. It is the same as when I first posted the question about not seeing them in the earlier thread. They are hard to see.
In my setup they are light grey in color. They do not stand out visually even when I am looking for them. This is my suggestion that the forward/back buttons could be a strong blue or at least a strong black, thicker, larger, with an icon - anything to stand out more than it does now.
I would absolutely agree with you, and extend that to icon design in general being very faint and lacking in quickly recognisable shape patterns, composed primarily of angular lines and hollow shapes. But that’s the die Apple has cast at this point, and aren’t looking to reinvent the back button. There is much to be said for following conventions when you can because it provides for a consistent experience. If the back/forward buttons in Safari look like the buttons in Scrivener, that helps people figure out what the feature means as they are learning it.
We’ll just have to wait for the fad to pass. I’ll be delighted once monochrome hairline buttons are considered old fashioned in the same way that brushed aluminium, pinstripe menus and photorealistic icons have now been cultured in our minds to be “old fashioned looking”.
As for using other colours, again we have convention in our way. Using blue would indicate a state in modern usage. For example the auto-load button in the corkboard/outliner footer bar turning blue when the feature is activated. Black would look out of place and stark, because black is used nowhere else in icons like that.
You lost me there … (?) Are you saying that Scrivener is unable to create using design elements independent of Apple? This seems odd since Apple has no program that I know of like Scrivener.
I use Firefox personally for web browsing as I don’t swallow the whole Apple experience all at once just because it is there. Lots to love about Apple, but I for one am not going to start dressing alike any time soon.
As to the forward/back button in Scrivener being the same as in Safari, it is not the same. More to the point, it is used much differently. Please note my new screen shot. Above is a Safari screen shot showing how Safari uses back/forward buttons. Below is the same shot I posted earlier showing how Scrivener uses the back/forward button.
Notice that in Safari the forward/back slashes are actually surrounded by a boundary where in Scrivener, there is no boundary surrounding either forward or back “button”. I use the term “button” here because the forward back marks as scrivener uses them really do not stand out as buttons.
Secondly, please notice that in Safari, the forward/back buttons are defined by one color in their small area and have a darker defining area surrounding them. That way, they do stand out just a bit which in Scrivener, they do not stand out from the background, not even a little bit.
And finally, please notice how in Safari there is almost no visual clutter anywhere near the forward/back buttons. They are there, in the menubar. They have a purpose. It is easy to see that they have a purpose and what to do with them (click on them when you need to go forward or back).
In Scrivener they are not defined in a button shape at all, they are not colored more darkly or more colorfully and they are in the midst of visual clutter being on a background identical to the page, next to the page title and immediately below a darker bar with things you more naturally pay attention to such as font size, formatting , etc.
The forward/back buttons or marks in Scrivener are just not very visually apparent. I am suggesting that they could stand out better as I am tending to use them more often and I am finding that I have to hunt for them visually a bit too often. Seems like this could be improved a bit?
In my second mock-up, notice how I have implemented your Safari suggestion into Scrivener and how much easier it is to see? I have also cheated the page title just a bit to the right in my example as visual space eliminates clutter and is part of my point here.
I mean to say, we try to keep the icon style (and much more besides) within the design scope that Apple uses throughout its software. There isn’t one program like Scrivener, sure, but there are similar concepts in play, and where it makes sense to reuse existing symbols and behaviours, we do. We break the rules here and there as well, where it seems best to. I’d say overall the next skin is going to have its own unique take on what is currently the “Apple native” look, but it is definitely meant to fit in with the basics on the system—and it is at this point fully designed and executed. While I may not be a fan of the specific Apple icon style, I think overall it looks great. It is along these lines, but more cohesive and well thought out.
Oh, on Safari I was referring to the icon itself, the concept of using a chevron instead of a thicker arrow, not the button presentation around it. The context is of course entirely different, and I’m not sure how well they compare. The style used there is typical for application toolbars, rather than interior components. For those you tend to see a flatter style employed, and rarely something so dark.
Respectfully, if you missed the point of visual clutter than you have not heard anything I have said here. I think my mock-up was quite to the point and the Scrivener menu bar with no borders around the chevrons and the same color as the background behind the chevrons was vastly inferior to how Safari implemented the same idea.
You keep going on about Apple and their rules, limitations, etc. Frankly I don’t care about Apple and their rules, limitations, etc. I am talking about Scrivener here, an app I use every day and am trying to suggest an improvement in the user interface. The back/forward buttons right now do not look like buttons. They do not look like they are a part of the menubar. They look to be incidental hash marks slightly above and mixed in with the document.
It is all well and good to state the rules of writing, or art, or music, or interface design. But you also have to know when to break those rules. Otherwise computers could write all our poetry, compose our novels, and compose all our new music.