So, the only options are “no updates at all” or “frequent updates”? Please note that my original comment did not mention “frequent” in it. A small update on progress, from time to time, in my opinion, is better than none given that some customers and some potential customers may never come to the forum at all and, if they do, may not weed through all that is here to find the information they need. So, perhaps an in-between position would be best?
My opinion is my opinion. As an opinion, I don’t think I really need solid data to present it. By presenting it, I can hear from others, especially those that disagree, and learn from their responses, right? However, having said that, I am a potential customer of v3 when released. I, initially, did not go to the forum and, for a time, thought that v3 was dead. Unlike some people I know, I do use forums for other software, so I did eventually come here and learned of v3’s development. But I do know people who don’t use or don’t like to browse through forums. Thus, it seems to make sense (at least to me) that it would be in the best interest of a company to have at least some moderately up-to-date information on the status of their currently in-development software.
I don’t really need to know the inner workings of L&L to determine these types of things. I’ve both worked for and have run companies that had to deal with customers at various levels. Communication is normally recommended to keep and attract customers. And since not all customers, potential or otherwise, use forums, then having an alternate means of communication is a good idea. To not use it, at all, because some are vocal and negative, is a missed opportunity (again, in my opinion).
Your opinion is your opinion. You are welcome to share it – politely! – but continuing to do so after the official L&L position has been made clear doesn’t really add anything to the conversation.
Surely sharing this encouraging Scrivener 3 update with new customers right on the Product page would result in fewer people sifting through unfocused forums & becoming dissuaded from their purchase?
Keith, I want to thank you for the best, and most polite, comment from L&L that I’ve heard in this, or any thread. Of course, I have to point out a major flaw in your statement. The words
is key here. It implies you’re basing your decisions not to communicate because of the small number of people who come to this forum and want to express what a rotten company L&L is because of blah, blah, blah. I tune them out, why can’t you?
The very first words regarding the last blog update re: Windows 3 begins
A new update of any kind is even longer overdue.
Yes, you’ll get flack. Yes, you’ll get called names. Yes, you’ll take a lot of heat. But why base your actions on the the very vocal minority who feel the need to come here and express their frustration in an uncivilized way? Reach out to the quiet majority who have a genuine interest in what is going on. They may not have a right to know, that’s your decision, but as consumers it should be no surprise that they want to know. That’s where I think you’re missing the boat.
It’s late here, so forgive the brief reply. These are fair points and we perhaps really should post some sort of update. However, I do worry - a worry grounded in some experience - that saying “we’re still working on it” is going to be seen by most as a pointless update that is worse than no update at all. Cleary not everybody feels like that, though!
I’ve written a short blog post updating Windows users on the status of v3, even though there’s not much to say other than that we’re still working on it. You’ll find it linked at the bottom of the main L&L web page.
Nice update, KB. Thank you. Would it be worth considering doing a blog post when there’s a new Beta release, with just a short “here’s where to go read the release notes if you’re interested” so that people who looking only at the web page or blog are seeing a (roughly) monthly update on Windows v3?
[quote=I doubt the veracity of posts that say people are “jumping ship.” [/quote]
Any developer which spends TWO years in beta AND still has the number of bugs being reported that L&L has isn’t real serious about the effort.
I, for one, got fed up with the bugs and their timeline b.s. and jumped ship. My experience, since, has proven to me that a 2-pane outliner works just fine for my needs.
I suppose I should thank them for their incompetence but they most certainly don’t deserve that thanks. This is a company which desperately needs better – or at least harder working – programmers.
If you’ve moved on so happily, why are you still posting in our forum to denigrate us? Curious. Your post certainly does not abide by our rule of being polite, so in future please be mindful that what you post contributes constructively to the discussion. I’ve already said that criticism is fine; outright rudeness (“incompetence”, “b.s”) is not.
I was being polite. Not sure how you misconstrued that I was not. Glad my point of view on the matter is seen as not adding anything to the conversation, though. I’ll politely bow out. I wish you well with Scrivener.
That’s nothing. The coefficient that measures the correlation of an individual company’s stock performance against the underlying diversified market position has been beta since 1961.
I did not say that you personally were being impolite. I was emphasizing the need for politeness for the benefit of other forum participants. I’m sorry for the confusion.
I agree with Kinsey. I had been suggesting a brief post simply explaining it’s very much in the works, and maybe a little more. Your post was informative and stated it like it is.
Sorry for any flack you may/likely will receive. Remember, most of us love Scrivener or we wouldn’t keep coming back to these forums.
[quote=I doubt the veracity of posts that say people are “jumping ship.” [/quote]
[quote=“JCarX”]
[quote=
Any developer which spends TWO years in beta AND still has the number of bugs being reported that L&L has isn’t real serious about the effort.
I, for one, got fed up with the bugs and their timeline b.s. and jumped ship. My experience, since, has proven to me that a 2-pane outliner works just fine for my needs.
I suppose I should thank them for their incompetence but they most certainly don’t deserve that thanks. This is a company which desperately needs better – or at least harder working – programmers.[/quote]
I, for one, think that Keith has to be an excellent programmer to have built such a complex software with so few bugs. Yes, every software has bugs, but for how complex this one is, the number is strikingly low. To claim someone who has built something like Scrivener is “incompetent” or that they should be replaced by “better or at least harder working” programmers is just an insult. Complex software takes time to build and timelines are often artificial because the software will be ready when it is ready. Scrivener windows beta is really great - I use it on linux at my workstation and it handles my projects from my Macbook Pro just fine.
As a software engineer that works on a super small team maintaining a very massive code project, I may be a bit more sympathetic, but I think others may feel the same way I do about your comment. I will ask the same question asked above: if you hate it so much, why do you come to the forums to post mean comments?
[quote=Any developer which spends TWO years in beta AND still has the number of bugs being reported that L&L has isn’t real serious about the effort.
I, for one, got fed up with the bugs and their timeline b.s. and jumped ship. My experience, since, has proven to me that a 2-pane outliner works just fine for my needs.
I suppose I should thank them for their incompetence but they most certainly don’t deserve that thanks. This is a company which desperately needs better – or at least harder working – programmers.[/quote]
I think everyone has the right to come into the forums and complain that L&L isn’t getting things done as fast as they should. I think they should be able to do so without getting beat up. But, I find it extremely odd that you say you have “jumped ship” yet feel the need to come back to the forums and continue to complain. If you jumped ship then swim away.
The only people who get to decide how fast L&L should be getting things done is…TADA! L&L.
“Should” is a matter of personal expectations. If you’re getting upset about a “should” you are holding expectations that are contrary to reality. Causes heat and friction, yes, but in the end, it’s a problem with the person holding the “should” in their head. It’s rude to bring those personal expectations here and vent on people.