How do I use references?

Hello,

I am new to Scrivener, just purchased it, and I must say I think it looks great for text, although the image and illustration support is something that could be done a lot better, like for example why can’t you have text next to an image? Placing an image creates a huge white field next to it, where no text can be placed. I found a work-around using tables, but that’s only a half-way solution.

There’s also many other things I react on, like not being able to edit column width in a table with the cursor. The whole table engine is bugged and not user-friendly, which is a huge disappointment. I have a lot of suggestions for improvements that I will post later, because I want to help this program get even better, as I do enjoy it, and think I will be working a lot with it.

My main concern, however, is that I can’t seem to find how to use references. The manual says a lot about a reference table, but I can’t find it anywhere. Is it supposed to be on the menu to the left? There I only have Draft, Research and Trash. Could anyone please explain in detail how I can use references?

Thanks in advance!

Okay, I found the reference bar, kinda hidden in the down right corner. But I am amazed - is it not possible to add a “link” to the reference within the text itself?

It seems to me like the “reference” bar in Scrivener is nothing more than a set of notes with the ability to have URLs and internal links. References in an academic text is supposed to be like this:

Claim [1]

[1] Author, name, journal, year, volume, page number

Is it not possible to have references like this, or similar, in Scrivener? It should be, even OpenOffice has that possibility!

Okay, I gather you don’t have a reference module, and don’t seen to want to answers question about it. Anyway, I really do hope you implement a real reference module in the next version! It is not hard to code, but will make the writing of academic texts as well as books much, much easier, and thereby give you many more costumers.

A lot of users are off visiting relatives (in the US anyway) for a holiday, and Lee, the main programmer for Windows is busy fixing bugs that inevitably crop up when software is released into the wild. Have a little patience, and I’m sure someone will pick up the remaining questions you have, if you haven’t figured them out yourself by then, as you seem to be doing.

As for References, I’m no expert, but most of the people who do academic writing use a separate program for keeping up with their references. The Mac version has some integration with a few of them, and no doubt that integration is coming to Windows at some time in the future, since feature parity is a primary goal for version 2 of Scrivener for Windows.

Actually, I don’t think the Mac version does images that precisely, either, but I could be wrong, since I’ve used the Mac version exactly twice.

What you want is the kind of formatting that’s intended to be done with another program, or even exported to LaTeX or the like via MMD. (Which is coming.)

I suspect there might be a little confusion about terminology here. I think you need to investigate footnotes and endnotes in Scrivener. (Citations / references to works consulted or quoted often go in footnotes / endnotes, depending on the conventions of the format. The references panel in Scrivener is meant to be used for other things – a quick link to a file that you may want to refer to while you are writing, so that you don’t have to hunt for it on the hard disc.) Early implementations of footnotes / endnotes in Scrivener for Mac were limited to “inline footnotes”, but the latest version for the Mac has a much better implementation. I would guess that version 1 of Scrivener for Windows is still using the early system, and hasn’t yet got the “Inspector footnotes” of the latest Mac version. They will no doubt arrive, when the Windows version catches up with the Mac version. The early version was not too usable for me (I use a lot of quite extensive footnotes), but the latest version is absolutely fine. I’ve attached a screenshot showing the Inspector footnotes on my Mac, with temporary citations that will be used by Bookends to generate full citations and a reference list or bibliography at the end of the work. Note the underlined asterisk in the main text which is the marker that shows where the footnote number will be placed. Numbering takes place when the text is compiled.

Cheers, Martin.

For image and table support, you need a word processor. Scrivener is an idea processor, designed to get you through about 80% of the task of writing. It helps you organize research materials, pull together notes on different topics, create an outline structure, and write a draft. The final look-and-feel of a manuscript, including stuff like headers, is the province of a word processor–which tends to help less in the 80% zone.

As you use Scrivener more, you should bless its strong support of the difficult parts of writing, and be content with a word processor for the finishing tasks. But if you really need to be able to see images and tables to proceed with your writing, a word processor like Word or Nisus Writer Pro or Pages may better answer your needs.

mbbntu: Thank you for the clarification! I did indeed mean footnotes. The problem is that I am using the Windows version, and this does not seem to have any function for footnotes at all. Cool to see how the function looks in Mac though, and I agree, it looks like it will fill most of my needs.

Druid: I realize that, but when Scrivener already has image and table support, it wouldn’t hurt to implement the functions properly. It wouldn’t be too complicated for a programmer either, to the contrary, it is easy things to implement, that for sure will give a better user-experience, and thereby more costumers. Win-win-win!

Unless I have got things completely upside-down (not unusual for me) Scrivener for Windows has the implementation of footnoting that was in the original version for Mac – it’s just that it doesn’t work anything like the system that you see in Word or other similar programs. Instead, text that appears in the middle of the main text is formatted as a footnote (it appears with a box round it and a different background colour). In other words, it is “inline” rather than being in a separate panel somewhere. But on Compile, a proper footnote number is placed in the main text, and the content of the footnote is moved to the bottom of the page or the end of the text. You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t remember all the details – and I’m assuming that the implementation in Windows is like the old implementation on the Mac. There has been a brief discussion here:

literatureandlatte.com/forum … lit=inline

I’d advise looking for “inline footnotes” and “ghost mode” in the documentation.

Hope this is of some help.
Martin.

Okay, cool! Even though inline footnotes (how can they be footnotes if they are inline? :laughing:) doesn’t fulfill my need, they are indeed a step on the way. I observed these inline footnotes when I imported OpenOffice documents with footnotes, but thought of the “blue bubble” as an artifact of the copying, as I couldn’t find how to set in my own. Pardon that I am so slow, but I still don’t understand how I can use inline footnotes, even after reading the manual, as it doesn’t seem to explain how to use them.

Take a look at the pdf manual. If you haven’t already got it, you can download it from

literatureandlatte.com/docum … win-a4.pdf

In section 15.1 (Inline Notation) it says:

“Since inline notation works just like ordinary formatting, creating a note or footnote from existing text is as easy as selecting the range of text you wish to adjust and clicking on the appropriate menu command or toolbar icon. … For footnotes … just use Format > Inline Footnote or Ctrl-Shift-F.”

Basically, you select anything in the main text that you want to be in a footnote, and change its formatting so that it has the blue bubble around it. It then comes out as a numbered footnote when you compile. I never liked the system myself, but needs must when the devil drives. I’m very glad that the Mac version is more sophisticated.

Hope that helps,
Martin.