How many fiction writers do we have here?

I’m going to take a stab at deciphering. I’m guessing the genre is sci-fi, and by “post-jump”, you mean the spaceship that he is riding on has just completed “zapping” or “hyperdriving” or what have you from universal point A to point X23 via some sort of wormhole or even better, gravity induced ship-board mechanism for generating ad hoc wormholes? Hence, green. Inner ear being so finicky about the sudden appearance and then disappearance of a black hole several blocks away and all that. This would also explain the mysterious “ensign” designation, as it is common to project naval attitudes and ranks into spaceship fleet jargon.

Tin,
even though we may, appear, to be talking, about, no discourtesy intended, were still talking to y. :wink:
I think, ‘suddenly’, is there for a reason. It denotes immediacy/urgency, something I think you want to convey to the reader, its relevant to the point youre, making. Purist may frown on the use of adverbs. ‘Sprang to his feet’ may be more acceptable.
Amber/Ioa sound as though he`s hit the nail on the head.

Possibly, the arrival in the ensigns immediate environs of a senior officer could have prompted his burst of activity; or the comms. console hes sat at, could have just retuned itself to the, PLAYBOY' channel, or revealed a meteor or asteroid heading his way, with an ETA of ten seconds. :open_mouth: Id still dump the first post though.
Vic

It’s been a while since I posted on this forum, but I’ve been intrigued by the variety of responses in this thread, so I thought I’d play along.

I recently returned from a research excursion and have been assembling notes into a narrative. I’ve been published a bit before, and have heard both false fawning praise and sharpened criticism that crossed over into personal insults; I’m not offended by personal opinions. But I do appreciate constructive criticism. :slight_smile:

Deliberately leaving out any sort of context or synopsis, here’s the opening (700 words) of a novel called In the Field Around the Palace:

[i]Dig deep or go home.[/i]

·—ж—·

More me misli.
I am haunted by thoughts.

·—ж—·

This is my eschatography.  This is my exorcism.  And, like every good exorcism, it is also a confession: I need to write this story on the soft typewriter of reality, to conjure forth the demons and nail them to the page.  In doing so, nothing I tell you actually happened and all of what follows should be considered entirely fictitious.  For instance, the rest of the world would not sit by and idly watch on television as a European capital city is laid to military siege for four years; the United Nations would never allow themselves be complicit in genocide—to assist its architects.
Some things can’t be true even if they happened.

Yet, once upon a time, in a mythic land called Jugoslavia…

·—ж—·

The Palace is not a place you find by searching for it.  Maps are completely inadequate to translate such territory.  Entering the Palace, the traveller brings with them their own ecstatic wonders, their own dread-filled tears.  The Palace is akin to the Grail Castle, to Chapel Perilous, the Silhouette Rogue.  Those who negotiate the Palace come out afterward either batshit-paranoid with belief or a stone-sober skeptic.  In most travellers, there is only that duality.  But for those who have walked the narrow alleys of a distant obscure bazāār, drank the elixirs in sensuous cafés of flesh, and inhaled certain honey-sulfur'd pollen of flowers from the sunless lands, may encounter a lone bodhisattva, a psychopomp among the the slumming angels, who navigates paths to and from the Palace which are not counted in that duality and upon which ground few feet have ever tread.  Yet however one finds their way to the Palace, when they do so, they must enter alone.  Of this, there is no other.

[i]Saraj-ovasi[/i], in Turkish, means [i]the field around the palace[/i].  In 1461, this phrase described the garden, mosque, and [i]souk[/i] surrounding the governor’s mansion in the Bosnian province of the Ottoman Empire.

Midway along this journey of life I came upon a landscape where my much-studied and oft-touted maps were utterly useless in guiding me through the soft geography where I found myself: in that field around the palace.

Sarajevo.

·—ж—·

By the time he hands me the picture, the boy is giddy with delight.  A framed black and white portrait, slightly larger than an 8x10: a military officer holding what looks at first to be a [i]lei[/i]—a necklace of flowers—but lingering examination brings on a tide of revulsion.  Instead of a garland of tropical orchids, the flowers of this necklace are human eyeballs.

The officer’s expression is reverent.  A sadistic gratification.

The officer is the boy’s grandfather.

·—ж—·

Party game:
Answer instinctively, without considering the question: if you had a time machine, when/where is the first place you’d go?

•—:  [i]That’s easy.  Sarajevo; Sunday June 28, 1914, about 9:30 in the morning.[/i]

The reply from around the room is in uncertain looks.  The immediacy of my answer surprises everyone.  I try to clarify.  More slowly this time:

•—: [i] I blame my response on Blue Öyster Cult; their album[/i] Secret Treaties.  [i]The back cover had a little paragraph which related “Rossignol’s curious, albeit simply titled book, [/i]The Origins of a World War[i], spoke in terms of ‘secret treaties’, drawn up between the Ambassadors from Plutonia and Desdinova the foreign minister.  These treaties founded a secret science from the stars.  Astronomy.  The career of evil.”  I always took that literary reference to concern World War I and its numerous incredible synchronicities and conspiracies which led to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife; the downfall of old Europe.  The scene that morning plays in my head like the Zapruder film, only displaced to an earlier time, another city, a different assassination.  The BÖC album is real enough, but the book mentioned on the back cover—Rossignol’s [/i]The Origins of a World War[i]—is entirely fictitious…[/i]

I unravel this pedigree to the other guests before the party games change, and we blindfold each other, get naked, then in the anonymous dark try to guess who is who.

·—ж—·

~•~

It sounds somewho between Ivo Andric and Italo Calvino, and a comparison to either, in my mind, is high praise. More, please.

ps

PJS~

I had to wait a bit before replying to formulate something beyond my initial response of: Wow. Calvino and Andric!? I think I’m going to go hide under my writing desk for a while before I come out again. I thank you much for those comparisons. If I had an ego, it would be rather inflated right now.
(I also looked into your other posts to gauge your other comments in relation to this.)

Actually, one of the crucial points of this tale occurred ([size=85]ehem, sorry, it’s all fiction…[/size]) will occur outside of Andric’s fabled Višegrad between Our Humble Narrator (Seward Francis Church) and some Chetniks. After Frank Church is introduced to a woman who was a sniper in Sarajevo during the war, he is taken to a place where some seriously bad things happened 15 years previous. He survives, of course, to tell his tale, but what he experiences there cannot be undone.

The story’s being written out of order, as I tend to do, but the narrative is clearly linear in my head. This is where (shameless plug for our favorite writing software) Scrivener comes in handy for my brain patterns. I can organize things in Scriv. in a manner that befits my process. There’s a mid-December deadline to turn in a completed draft to an editor who is curious about what comes from my research.

I’m hesitant to post much in a public forum—both for publishing issues and personal reasons—but there’s a couple of scenes I’ll share here when they and I are ready. I never try to write and edit to perfection, only, as my second mentor suggested, to the point where they are Good Enough.

I do have a related story that has paid enormous dividends since first being published [located most conveniently here: kirkesque.blogspot.com/p/sarajevo-roses.html along w/publishing history and a few critical reviews]. The incident in the story is real, the characters and motivations are fictional.

I offer another thank you for the comment. It is not small praise at all. :smiley:

Kirk:

As one of your correspondents noted, it will be easy, later on, to forget it was a story, and think that’s what really happened.

ps

I wrote that in December `03 I don’t remember why I chose that particular street to mention by name but later, in researching, I came across a photograph of a concrete barrier that acted as a sniper wall. “Pink Floyd” was spray painted on it. Turns out, that particular sniper wall was at the same street corner. It was the second place I visited in Sarajevo. It was a strange sensation walking a street I’d written about; walking a town so filled with ghosts. And cemeteries in any space where the ground could have been dug.

The sense of humor that is shared among the people there is something—I think—Americans could learn from about our small national well-politicized tragedy.

Sarajevo’s a unique place. I feel no small responsibility when I set a story about it to paper.

Again, I thank you for your comments.

~k

@tinrobot: Looking at this, “beauty in simplicity” comes to mind. Post-jump sickness sounds just perfect. I don’t think you have to explain the technology behind the particular “jump”, other than maybe in a mention in a backstory, or something. But that’s just my mind strolling down the sci-fi lane :slight_smile:

To be clear, I wasn’t offering all of that as an alternative first-sentence for a book! That would be wretched. :slight_smile: It was meant to clarify the prior confusion over whether “jumping” meant paratroopers stiffly coming to attention after falling a few thousand feet with nothing but some silk fluttering about over their head.

AmberV: Sorry for that, I should have added that it perhaps could be appropriate with a mention of a starship (or such, “as the ensign stood suddenly at his post,” I see now that this could be on a starship, planet, space station etc.), before mentioning the (space) (insert appropriate technology here) jump. Was in the middle of a quarrel with myself about intergalactic (jump) space travel at the time I replied first 8)

A lot of brackets, that is.

This is a long thread, so I thought I’d add a refresher of the initial premise:

Since I have posted the first lines of my current work under a different topic (where I’m asking about chapter length - [url]Chapter length]) I thought I might as well also post them here for the standard L&L treatment.

Rog,
I’m not schooled in the art of critique, so I may be talking out of my lower orifice here. I belong to the: TTFRBOOTW, school of thought (just make sure you know where it landed)
.

some nonsense pigfender wrote:
Chapter one
In which the smoke clears on David’s car crash, and sex is mentioned for the only time in the book.[i]I’m assuming this is for the benefit of ScrivCrits, and isn’t going to be included in the book.

You’re describing your involvement, in what seems to be a serious accident, after which, I’m wondering, would you really be in any fit state to be giving a lucid, first person/present tense account of you physical/emotional state. Assuming you are:[/i]

It’s a horrible feeling: are you describing an emotional response or a physical one? a kind of in this instance-> hollow and emptiness <–mean pretty much the same thing, I should think combined with a warm glow in the pit of my stomach.If all the previous is a physical response, then the inclusion of feeling in your stomach, requires you dump emptiness, or add some kind of qualification to it. That, plus a nervous energy that makes me want to run around like a headless chicken.<–This seem incompatible with the description of someone physically/emotionally inert. Also, because of it, I doubt that you would be sat on a wall. I suspect you would be more inclined to stand up and fidget. Unless of course, you are unable to stand, because of physical injury, of which you make no mention.

I’m sitting on a small wall by the side of what until a few moments ago <–this expression means only a minute or two at the very most, to me. Others may disagreehad been a quiet road in South East London. Now, of course, the cars have started to build up. The traffic is reaching a complete standstill with drivers unable to get round the accident that I caused.
Given that this is a quiet road, I’m assuming it isn’t part of a one way system, so drivers would be able to use the opposite side of the road and turn around and travel back the way they came. I doubt you would encounter gridlock, especially on a quiet road.

It’s a miserable end to a miserable day. Why is this the, end, of the day? I’m thinking the day has an awful lot more to give, unless it’s midnight, or you are about to go to bed.Without some indication as to the time of day, it could be jarring for the reader

For better or worse, that’s my two pen’th. As I said, I could be talking out of my posteria !
[i]So, having picked all (my) nits, I’m intrigued to know more about David and his story.

Me being a member of the:Throw The F***ing Rule Book Out Of The Window, school, I don’t expect you to accept anything I’ve written, without the right to be able to demand of me, as much qualification as you require, before rejecting the crits. Hopefully, however, any crits you receive will be of some use to you, and also prove enlightening to the rest of us :wink: Or at least, those of us in need of enlightenment! :confused:

Take care
Vic[/i]

Thanks Vic,

I agree with your points. Thanks for taking the time. There were a couple of Qs in there, so I’ll address those for the wider interest:

Actually, I’d intended for this to be included. I take it you are anti this sort of thing?

Emotional

He’s on his way back home after a day at work followed by meeting a friend for a chat in a bar, so it is quite late. I take the point about there being more things for him to resolve before he goes to bed (not least of all actually getting there). I’m trying to set up a feeling of “well, at least things can’t get any worse”.

Well, I like the rider to your chapter heading. It establishes a style and a tone. Of course, the rest of the work will have to maintain those.

Just sayin’.

Okay, I’ve reworked the opening para a little bit to take on board Vic’s comments. I thought I’d share the fruits of the revision. (Don’t worry, I don’t intend to share the whole novel revision process in this manner! That may well produce the longest and most collaborative novel in the world!)

I’ve included the next couple of sentences as well this time as they soften the impact of the “end of the day” point (I think!).

I still like the chapter tag “teasers”, so have left in for now.

I agree with your points. Thanks for taking the time. There were a couple of Qs in there, so I’ll address those for the wider interest:

I’m assuming this is for the benefit of ScrivCrits, and isn’t going to be included in the book.
Actually, I’d intended for this to be included. I take it you are anti this sort of thing?
[i]Anti, implies prejudice and bias, both of which I’m more than capable of, however, since I’m aware of it, I can give 'em the elbow when it comes to criting another person’s work. That crit will be made wearing (I hope), the hat of a moderately discerning, non-expert/unscholarly, average reader. As I’ve said, “I hope!!” So, having said all that:

I don’t like it. It’s a device I’ve never encountered before. Which doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it, per se, and as long as (in this case), you don’t mind the author giving you a nano-synopsis at the beginning of every chapter. I hear Rog speaking, when I read it. For me, it’s an unnecessary authorial intrusion in the first person/present tense narrative. (David’s) I just don’t see the point of it. Unless…you are developing some kind of innovative, dual first person, narrative device, with the aid of a Mephistophelian-esque-ish character. That could be kinky :smiling_imp:
I’ve just read your reworking. What is it exactly, that turns you on about it? But don’t forget, it’s got to turn the reader on too.

From the three hundred+ works of fiction around this house, I’ve pulled forty. They range from Kerouak to Solzhenitsyn. None of them see the need for this device. A few use a 1/2/3 word chapter heading.
[/i]
are you describing an emotional response or a physical one?
Emotional
Even the gentlest of prangs, can have a traumatic affect upon those involved. I’m wondering if, ‘A warm feeling in the pit of my stomach.’ wouldn’t work better if it was , ‘A hundred butterflies, in the pit of my stomach.’ That would be the adrenalin kicking in, and would complement the awful hollow feeling, and also legitamise an agitated state…the urge to run round like a…

Why is this the, end, of the day?

He’s on his way back home after a day at work followed by meeting a friend for a chat in a bar, so it is quite late. I take the point about there being more things for him to resolve before he goes to bed (not least of all actually getting there). I’m trying to set up a feeling of “well, at least things can’t get any worse”.
If my experience is anything to go by, I’d be thinking, ‘What the feck else is gonna go wrong.’

[/quote]
[i]My judgement, being reliably informed by innumerable accredited sources of literary wisdom, is telling me, that by the time you submit this to a publisher, it will’ve been reworked a few times more.
But!! Since it’s your opening Chapter, it’s got to be right on.

You’ll have to dump gridlock. If the police are at the scene, they’ll be more concerned with major traffic disruption than the damage to your wife’s car. Coppers will be turning them back, on both sides of the smash.<— FORGET THAT! EDITED: You’ve got it right in the rewrite…much better.[/i]
I’m still intrigued by Dave’s dilemma.
Vic

Firstly, the most important words written here are “I don’t like it”. Clearly not the reaction I’m going for (I was hoping for something closer to Hugh’s)! Given that I’m not going to have the opportunity to defend the tags to readers, it is hardly a response I can ignore.

But since you asked, here is why I like them (closely aligned to why you don’t, interestingly enough):

  1. It drops you out of the narrative and provides a breath of a different air, helping prevent long sections of 1st person present getting stale.
  2. It is a narrative device to prompt questions in the reader (eg, how does sex come up at the scene of a car crash?) and sets up later humour.
  3. It IS a bit different from the norm in other books. Perhaps it owes more to the episodic treatment of TV shows – think the flashes of text between segments in an episode of Frasier.
    Note that the tag is not actually a synopsis. It tells you three things: the speaker’s name, something that happened before the start of the chapter (giving a ‘hard’ open), and it sets up a joke later. It doesn’t tell you anything that is about to happen, so isn’t a ‘spoiler’ or me leaving the outline / author’s notes showing in the margin.

But… Coming back to where we started are those four simple words: “I don’t like it”. There is little point in my trying to defend something that prompts such an emotional response in a reader. If it’s a turn-off, well then it’s a turn-off and that is probably a reader lost. Given that I’m currently unpublished at zero readers, that takes me to minus one, which is pretty depressing.

On your other points:

  • I still don’t like the description of the emotion. I can’t go TOO far down a flowery metaphor route as it won’t suit Dave’s voice which is a long way from the literary prose of a Kerouac or the Russian dude (Belated info – it’s a light hearted comedy thriller). How about: “a kind of hollow sadness combined with a warm glow in the pit of my stomach. That, plus alternate flashes of embarrassment and depression that roll over me like waves of nausea.”
  • I’ve removed the nervous energy. You are right: it’s incongruous with sitting on the wall (which is important), and in any case the headless chicken was a tired cliché.
  • These few seconds of backed up traffic are useful, so I’ll take out the mention of the police already being there out of the opening to ease any residual jarring.

So…

Thanks again for the time, effort (You looked through forty books?!) and benefit of your insight, Vic. This has been very helpful. I’m on chapter ten of the first draft and I have to say you are right: Dave is rapidly learning life’s most important lesson… Things can ALWAYS get worse!

PS woohoo! 100 posts!

Re “chapter tags”: seems to me, pf, you’re maybe unconsciously parodying 18th-century novels (see, for example, Tom Jones) with a dash of 21st-century irony and a hat-tip in the tag we’ve seen to the perceived obsession of modern readers with sex. Seemed quite innovatory and fresh to me, and that’s why I like it.

I like the little chapter intro thingies, if you’re going for an 18th- or 19th-century revival style. You’d be hard-pressed to find a book written prior to 1820 that doesn’t feature these, and you’ll find them still popping up now and then right through the end of the 19th century. If they’re not merely affectations but actually advance the structure, then they might catch an agent or editor’s eye.

So, what’s old is new again. Like bell-bottoms.

The story is being written with short chapters - say 5 to 10 pages a piece - so it does have an almost “serialised” feel, I guess.