The functionality is there, sure. It’s just as practical as the last version. I love the templates we’ve seen so far. But 90% of my comfort with a program is how it looks and I HATE the icons. I mean REALLY HATE. I hate the red outline of the research icon, I hate the tacky new toolbar at the top and it’s tacky little bubble-cons that look like they belong on an old, cheap version of Windows.
I like what you’ve done with the toolbar across the bottom. I’m warming up to the Daily Target business. The templates are awesome. But the toolbar at the top used to be so beautiful!! Why did you change it!?!?
Is there going to be a way to NOT upgrade to the new version when it becomes available? I really think I’m going to be happier with the older version…WHICH CHANGED MY LIFE, by the way. Just thought I’d throw that out there.
2.0 is a paid upgrade. You do not have to buy it. You do not have to use it.
One thing to keep in mind is that 1.5 can not read 2.0 projects. You will need to cut and paste any updates you made in 2.0 into a running instance of 1.5. You can have both installed and running on your system at the same time which will make it easier. If you need help with that let me know (PM or public, entirely up to you).
Hiding the toolbar…Great trick! I had no idea that was there and I like it! Thank You!
I bought the license with the 2.0 upgrade included…that’s why I’m concerned about it doing so automatically. I’ve got both versions running simultaneously right now so that I can play with the new features but still plot out my NaNo novel in the older version I’m more comfortable with.
I definitely see what you mean about taking a project from 2.0 back to 1.5…I just tried it and it was a mess! Will be double sure to keep 1.5 back-ups of anything I import to 2.0. Thanks for the heads up!
When you import a file into 2.0 scriv will create a backup for you. Just remember to look for the .backup file.
A quick thought: Aesthetics are very important to the creative mind. The problem is that not all creative minds are the same. What may be a pleasing aesthetic to one mind may be a creativity killing displeasure to a different mind. This is complicated by UI design standard and interface trends. While L&L (with whom I am not affiliated in any way other than a user) more than caters to its user base, there is a need to follow some trends. Specifically those that create icons such as the ones you dislike. As a person who generally does not like the way UI design/aesthetic is trending in the industry, I certainly feel your pain, but I think you and I may be the minority this time.
Try giving it some time though. You might come to like them better over time.
If it were up to me, I’d take a blend of 2010 OS X lack of pin-stripes and 2004 OS X respect for freaking buffer space between internal components and you know, a modicum of a window frame, and then stir it up with OS 9 frankly.
I’m sorry you don’t like it, but a lot of hard work went into this release - two years’ worth - and I freaking love the new icons. Most users really like them, too, from the feedback I’ve had so far, so I’m not sorry to tell you that you are in the minority.
No, you don’t have to upgrade, but I recommend it and I won’t be supporting 1.x for much longer after 2.0 comes out.
So, yeah, thanks for throwing it out there that you REALLY HATE it. Because, y’know, that’s really helpful.
KB, I don’t think the OP was directed as a personal attack on the work you have done. I think it was more of a “this makes it hard for me to work” kind of thing. Kind of like a barking dog outside interrupting the flow of bug squishing. Give Snobunny some time to consider it all again with the tool bar hidden.
Jaysen, after very little sleep from trying to get this thing out there, two years of bloomin’ hard work, dealing with bugs and trying to get everything running, I’m just not well disposed right now towards unconstructive, all-caps “HATE IT” posts, about things that are clearly not going to change. I’m sure snobunny didn’t mean it personally, but when you’re working your ass off it can sure feel that way. Sigh. I think I ought to abandon these forums for a while as I clearly have too much to do and don’t want to offend anyone. snobunny - no offence intended. Although please let me know of any published works you have out there so that I can write to you and tell you about the parts I HATE.
Regards,
Keith
I apologize if I offended you or the work you’ve put into this release. I thought this was a forum for feedback. My assessment was of what I loved, what I hated, and why my priorities in one area overrode the others.
Had I known my negative feedback wasn’t welcome, I would never have posted it in the first place. Although this is the first time I’ve ever used a manufacturer’s online forum, I can assure you it will be the last.
Negative feedback is welcome, but there is a way of saying things; before posting it’s helpful to think about how you would like feedback from someone to whom you had just handed work you had put a lot of effort into. Saying, “I don’t really like the new icons,” is fair enough as it’s entirely subjective; entitling the thread, “I don’t like it” and then using all-caps to shout your hatred isn’t going to be well-received, sorry.
So yes, by all means post negative feedback, just make sure it’s the sort of negative feedback you wouldn’t mind receiving yourself. There’s really no need to turn tail and run (that was a bunny pun).
Anyway, I’m sorry to be tetchy as I certainly don’t want to upset a user who clearly likes the program otherwise, but I’m only human, and an overly-sensitive one at that.
It is a forum for feedback, positive and negative both are welcome, just understand if you use strong language like “really hate it”, it might get hackles raised from those that have been working around the clock and subsisting on coffee and scattered microwaved meals to get this release out to everyone. There is no inhuman corporation here, just a small handful of us and we all have put a lot of personal effort and time into every single detail you see.
Hey snobunny, Just another comment on the toolbar, in addition to hiding it as Ioa mentioned, you can also choose to have text only instead of icons, so you still get the benefit of the items there for easy access but it takes up less space and won’t have the aesthetics that you dislike. A right-click on the toolbar will give you the menu options to let you choose text only.
I can absolutely appreciate the amount of time and effort it took to update this program. As I’ve said, there are several things about it I really love.
I suppose I could have said “had a forceful and unpleasant visceral reaction” to the icons. Hate seemed like a simpler word to use, and being a writer (obviously, since I use Scrivener) I like to be direct with my word choices.
Let me point out again that this is a feedback forum. I’m surprised so many of you expected it all to be positive. I’m also surprised that my use of the ‘H’ word resulted in such vilification, since it was buffered on both sides by how much I not only loved the program but many of the new features. To disparage a customer for stating their opinion, one inherently invited by the Feedback title of the forum, seems more than a little unprofessional to me. I do thank everyone who posted about alternate ways to view the toolbar…those remarks have been incredibly helpful to me.
I’ll be sure to email my next manuscript to Keith. I’d hate to deprive him of the opportunity to run a red marker through it. And again, I apologize if I offended any of the developers. My comments were my opinion…nothing more.
No one has rejected negative feedback as such. You’re only asked to be a little more tactful about it. “Hate” is certainly simple and direct, but it’s also a very strong word, and titling your post “I don’t like it. :(” gives the impression that this is the primary message.
The fact that this is the first time you’ve ever used a manufacturer’s forum may be the problem here. Tone is hard to communicate in a forum, but one thing certain is that ALL CAPS is equivalent to yelling (and not in a “nice” way)–it’s universally (I believe) considered rude. Also, titling the thread “I don’t like it” is sure to raise some hackles. I urge you to look around at the different threads here. There is plenty of room for disagreement and plenty of give and take–but I assure you, you are unlikely to find a more responsive and helpful group of people in any other forums. I have no idea how Keith, Amber and the rest get any work done at all, considering how often they respond to users’ requests, comments and queries on these forums.
Perhaps a post that had said “I love it, but…” would have been met with a more understanding response. Do you greet your partner with “OMG I HATE YOUR NEW HAIRCUT” or with a more subtle–“Hmm… New haircut? Interesting look. I liked the old one, but…”. Remember, this has been two years in the making and, as Keith and Amber said, lots and lots of caffeine-enabled sleepless nights have gone into it. A little respect goes a long way.
Had there been a negative thread in the 680+ Feedback forum topics, I would have used it. I couldn’t find one so I started a new one and titled it to reflect my intent. I don’t like it. I added a frown because I’m unhappy about not liking it. I wanted to love it. I don’t. There are some things I love about it and some things I hate about it, but I don’t like the Scrivener update and I would LOVE to know how much longer I’ll be able to continue using the the old one.
I capitalize the word LOVE to show emphasis in an otherwise inflection-barren medium, as I have on EVERY OTHER forum and message board I’ve used since 1994. This is my first manufacturer’s forum, yes, but not my first forum or message board. This added emphasis has never been internalized as disrespect, at least not to my knowledge, and is a perfectly acceptable way of expressing oneself on any other forum or message board I’ve ever used. This one must be unique, since it’s the first time in sixteen years I’ve ever felt unwelcome or that my opinion was somehow invalid. Perhaps my career as a journalist has hardened me to expect and respect criticism of my own work. I can honestly say I’ve never snapped at a reader for their dissenting opinion of my writing, and the fact that I’m a paying customer makes the entire situation ludicrous.
Would you like me to apologize for not liking the upgrade and preferring not to use it??
So just in case my point wasn’t utterly transparent…I don’t like the update. I don’t like it because I think the icons are ugly, and since this affects my creative process and level of distraction far more than the wonderful new features. I will continue to use the older version as long as I can, and feel much more confident in the transition into the upgrade thanks to a few easily explainable tricks that probably would have taken me months to figure out on my own. It saves me the aggravation of switching to Storyist.
I have to agree… a little respect does go a long way. So does a little disrespect, as we’ve obviously proven. So does a little misunderstanding and a little snarky customer service. I’m ashamed to say I’ll never see this company the same way, but I suppose that’s the risk you run when you represent your employer in an internet forum. I enjoy a bit more latitude…since in this case I represent only myself.
Regardless, I’ve apologized several times for any offense I may have caused, and again I can assure everyone that I won’t be posting any of my opinions in the future. It’s been made more than clear that they will not be missed.
I like the new icons. They are, at least, coherent. And I like the fact they are rather subtle, with just a hint of shadow and not too much wanna-be-3D, so typical of other software today.
But, since I don’t like the idea that Keith can sleep too quiet before ironing out the latest, small bugs, I will joke a bit about how I HATE the new app icon >:-)
