I just have to ask . . . UK

What is truly flabbergasting in this is that the two pronunciations which apparently coexisted for some time should end up bifurcating so cleanly that neither usage community is even so much as cognizant of the existence of the other. Geographic distance counts for a lot historically, but still shocking even after weighing that in.

–Greg

Well, I have occasionally heard “twat” pronounced as “twot” in the UK, and yes, it’s a class or ignorance thing (ignorance of the proper Queen’s English pronunciation).

But I’m still puzzled by this “b” word. In the UK, for regulatory purposes the BBC ranks swear-words in a list in order of audience sensitivity and there is none higher than the “c” word. “Bollocks” and “bastard” come way down.

So what can this “b” word be? I"d quite like it to be “Bush”, but I bet it isn’t… :wink:

H

The proper QE pronunciation of “twat”? I must have missed that Christmas speech!

I don’t think ignorance comes into it, though - class may do, but regional accents cannot be put down to ignorance. For instance, in the West Midlands from where I hail, we say “Mom” instead of “Mum” - i.e. we use the version most commonly associated with Americans (and of course further north “Mam” is more common). Likewise anything with an “a” in it tends to be closed in the Midlands and North and open in the South. So “grass” rhymes with “mass” for me, whereas recently when I asked my four-year-old to get out of the bath, she frowned at me and told me it was “the barth, not bath”. (In which case, “twat” would be prounounced “twart”, to rhyme with “fart”…) Class only comes into it because traditionally the upper classes have learned or mimicked the East Midlands pronunciation associated with Queen’s English rather than use the accents of their localities.

Although I do admit that I’m ignorant of the queen’s pronunciation of “twat” and really hope she puts us out of our misery soon!

All the best,
Keith

P.S. xiamenese - just in case anyone took it seriously, my previous “rant” about horsey posh people was meant in good humour and not as a genuine attack on horsey posh people. My daughter is only four months old and already I mock her for being ginger. Although my comments do apply to the members of the Countryside Alliance who stepped onto my tube train a few years back, decked out in tweed and jodhpurs, and proceeded to muse loudly about how amusing it was that us little people travelled like that. I have no idea how they survived the journey.

Our newly elected leader, twatted on the telle, a few months ago: youtube.com/watch?v=d3Mrfut-FSw
Also, during the days leading up to the switch on of the CERN particle accelerator, a few months back, the UK`s favourite young physicist, Prof. Brian Cox, from Manchester University, pointed out, whilst presenting a BBC program from CERN, that there was no chance of the World coming to a end, as it disappeared down a black hole caused by the LHD. He went on to state that, anyone claiming that it would, was a twat.
Vic

Ever since I got thrashed for taking the Creator’s name in vain, I’ve tried to be more delicate in speech, if not thought or deed. :open_mouth:

The C word is “cnt" and the B word is "btch” and they are both vulgar ways to defame a male’s masculinity, while also defaming women. You hear the B-word often in depictions of black street culture or prison life. A superior “owns” anyone called a b*tch, either as a subordinate who runs errands, or as a minion who provides sexual favors.

The origin of this meaning is male homosexual slang, according to the other OED:
etymonline.com/index.php?term=bitch

I love Brian Cox. A physicist who makes science programs as exciting as Carl Sagan did, and he used to be a musician who supported Jimmy Page on tour (we’ll ignore the D:Ream bit). And he didn’t say “twot”, that’s for sure. :slight_smile:

I know, I know. I couldn’t.

You only left me with the “lame comeback” option though.

No offence taken, Keith, though I do have the problem of people thinking I’m posh, when I’m not. I had a student, who I got to know very well through sorting out her many problems, who was from Catford/Lewisham. Periodically, I had to ring her and the phone would be answered by one of her sisters or sisters-in-law; they thought I was awfully posh, until I finally met one or two of them. Student reported that the sister in question said, “I always thought your teacher was terribly posh, but he’s really only an ordinary sort of bloke, isn’t he!” (Translate into sarf lunnun, I can’t.) We had lunch in a pub once in Catford when I was helping her. The barman didn’t understand my order and she had to translate; after we left, she asked me if I’d noticed what happened when I ordered. I said that the barman hadn’t understood me; she said, no, the pub went totally silent. When I asked why, she said, “Your accent. If we’d been in the next pub down the road, you’d have been beaten up for it.”

And actually, the accent is public school … there are extreme versions, like Eton, Winchester and Marlborough, and really extreme versions like Harrow, but basically “Standard RP English” is public school English. The Queen doesn’t speak it; she speaks Royal Dialect, of which the most extreme version is Prince Charles. And I don’t know of any connection between RP and East Midlands, though there are three varieties: Southern RP, Northern RP — flat 'a’s as in Yorkshire pronunciation — and Scottish RP — think Malcolm Rifkind <ugh!>

Mark

If y like BC as much as I do, then youll love this foul-mouthed spoof of W.O.T.U.
youtube.com/watch?v=fhn8j7S4uKU
Feel free to take it down if you think it`s too much!! :laughing: :laughing:
Vic

Mr X/Mr F (this dual identity thing is starting to get out of control)

What the heck is “standard RP english”?

To further this travesty of ignorance, I offer a transcript of a scene with the daughditor during a viewing of Pride and Prejudice (the A&E version):

D: Why can’t they speak English?
M: They are.
D: No they are not. He said priv-e-see not prive-ay-see.
M: Right. He said it correctly. You speak American.
D: No, I speak English.
M: Really? Where do you live?
D: What? Here.
M: In what country do you live?
D: America.
M: And what country does Colin Firth live in?
D: Uhhh…
M: Try England.
D: Ok. England.
M: And where does English come from?
D: Umm England, Duh.
M: So you, the American, are going to tell an English man from England that he doesn’t know how to pronounce an English word correctly?
D: Shut up.

I think that means I won. Not sure though.

I think the ‘RP’ must stand for ‘real posh’.

Here I was thinking it was “Reverse Polish”.

?work that would How

vic-k: Nice!

Xiamenese: Regarding the East Midlands, that is where RP (and let’s face it, Southern RP is really the RP) emerged during the Middle Ages as I understand it, the South-East Midlands equating at the time to London and the counties nearby. The East Midlands is where RP came from in the first place. As for Catford… Yeah, always best to be careful round those parts. I learned to drop my "T"s pretty quickly while living in Lewisham. :slight_smile:

Best,
Keith

P.S. Given that I couldn’t be bothered to go through my Middle English history books, I checked it out on Wikipedia:

Received Pronunciation. Think BBC announcers, and almost everyone who went to Public School (which aren’t public).

The “announcer” dialect. That is pretty much the only “British” voice we get over here that is not an over acted stereotype of …

Hmm. On second thought I have seen enough of vic-k’s typing to think that may it isn’t overacting.

Spot-on spoof (and great series).

A point or two of qualification, my dear Sir, if you would be so kind? :confused:
Vic

Just as my typing shows a distinct “American Slothic” stereotype, certain … let us call them persona … persona that associate themselves with your ID bring much baggage in the form of stereotypes.

Brilliant–The cosmic opposite of RP. Eat yer 'eart out, Richard Attenborough and Simon Schama.

Mr Jaysen,
I dont think this, or any other open forum, is a suitable place to broach the subject of vic-ks, id.
You are familiar with Dr Morbius` fate, I take it?
Do take care,
Dr.Mulality