I know you are, but what am I?

L&L don’t charge for point upgrades, like many others. I have yet to find ANY who don’t charge for major upgrades unless you buy an overpriced ‘lifetime’ licence or have an equally expensive sub.

You realise how cheap it sounds quibbling over such a small price change in an attempt to justify your position? L&L are a commercial business, not some charity. They gave it free to anyone who purchased after the announcement. The rest of us get a very powerful (exceptional) piece of software at extremely competitive pricing.

The nearest actual competitor is subscription, short on some features but costs near that every year.

As my Yorkshire dad used to say, ‘no satisfying some folks!’

You realise that this forum is for customer feedback directed at L&L, not for customers to try and discredit anyone with an opinion that differs from theirs, right?

I’ve been polite with my feedback and given my reasons for doing so. If you don’t agree, then that is your problem not mine.

You realise this is a forum for discussion amongst users as well as feedback?

You are entitled to voice your opinion, just as others (apparently the vast majority) are entitled to call you out and disagree.

If you don’t agree, then that is your problem not mine. :laughing:

Well, to me this seems less like a discussion and more like an argument with a bunch of Obvionesque Adoring Fans, but that’s just my opinion.

In any case, I shall not be continuing it as I’ve said all I needed to.

People like you are why so many open-source projects die. Why? Because you treat the developers like crap, demand things you’ve no right to, and whine incessantly about reality.

Developing for Windows is not cheap; there’s a small development team, and they have to earn a living or there’s no way the development of new software is going to happen. Your complaints about being asked to pay for this process are both immature and morally bankrupt–You don’t want the software? Fine; go away. Don’t come here whining about what are very generous terms for the new software version. You won’t see terms like that anywhere else in the small-industry bespoke software field. L&L is being very honest and very “nice” about this, and you’re behaving like a spoiled child in return.

Good God, I’d love to hear your whinge-fest over some of the things I have to put up with in my day job, where the software sales types don’t even blink when they start talking about a $3,000.00 monthly subscription fee for a minimum of 12 months for a piece of essential yet buggy and nearly unusable crapware that they have us over the barrel on. It’s like being mugged over the internet… And, paying for the privilege.

Ah, I see. When an existing customer has a query about why the price has risen more for people paying in UK currency than in US dollars, moderators move their posts to some random thread for other users to make random insults and ludicrous comments about.

Stellar customer service. But that’s okay, as they aren’t a charity after all. :unamused:

Exactly. Now go write something using the software of your choice. You’ll be able to produce more output, faster, than by using a product you have no use for, but continue to whine and snivel about.

I’m surprised that some of you can write anything worthwhile using any software, given your poor reading comprehension levels.

I went to the L&L site originally to find out if v3 was out yet (which means I actually like v1.9).

My objections were that due to the long wait the price went up from what it was during NaNoWriMo in November and that it went up more for anyone who had to pay in UK currency.

If it had been available for $45 + VAT (- a 50% discount for the upgrade) and I could would only have to pay that amount rather than have an extra fee on top for no obvious reason, I’d likely have grumbled to myself about the wait and probably bought it.

Given how toxic these forums seem to have become and L&L’s total lack of interest in this issue, I’m highly unlikely to renew either of their products that I previously paid for, nor continue to recommend others to buy them.

But hey, at least you can continue to feel smug about the fun you’ve had by ganging up on someone less fanatical than yourselves, eh?

You are right and right, IMO.

If you want software for writing, as well as a more open-minded and supportive community, take a look at:

forum.obsidian.md

obsidian.md

Merx

All for the mere pittance of 50 a year. And it’s a Beta download. Of course.

No, free for personal use.

obsidian.md/pricing

Merx

Yes, I read that, too, but there’s a lot of working authors in here, so for all of us it’s paid. 50 a year. Every year.

If you “use it for revenue-generating, work-related activities in a company that has two or more people” then there is a charge, although $50 per user is virtually nothing at all for a revenue-generating company with two or more staff.

If you’re a single writer working outside a company there is no charge. That probably is most of the writers “here”.

Merx

It seems that push back is not tolerated. And anyone who does push back is relegated to mindless fan box.

You know what’s funny? I started inquiring about another missing feature from Scrivener. I mentioned how everytime I’ve done this in the past, someone always shows up to tell me to stop complaining. I was told that was essentially nonsense. And yet, not soon after, someone showed up to say stop complaining. An admin. And she was very adamant about it. So much so that she lied about the statements I had made and then blocked me from posting on that thread, so as to make sure I couldn’t actually defend myself.

What was it that got her so mad? I suggested that the developers of Scrivener added an option to include page numbers on the individual pages instead of only being able to do it when you compile you manuscript. And that was enough to get the admins mad enough to restrict my access. Yes, I am quite the criminal.

I feel so much better about not recommending Scrivener to clients because I can just imagine what would have happened if they had problems with the software and complained about it in the forum. Unlike the admin of this forum who cared nothing about the reputation of this company, I do care about mine.

To be clear, I in no way said Scrivener was bad software. I simply suggested that there may be places in which they could make some improvements. But apparently (and this is what was suggested), improvements of an unsanctioned nature go against the culture that surrounds this software. And the very idea that not everyone is a novelists and may way to use this software for more business-oriented projects is forbidden for reason I just can surmise.

So there you have it. I paid for this software on more than one occasion, but can’t freely use their forum to speak my mind because I don’t agree with the masters on high about what is acceptable discourse. Fine. Last dollar Scrivener will ever see from me.


From:

AmberV
Posts: 24890
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact: Contact AmberV

Mon May 17, 2021 12:16 pm Post
You set the tone of this recent discussion when you directly implied that professional writers need these features. So yes, you did the start the fire, and wandering around bemused over why everyone else around you is so “passionate” is not doing your argument any favours.

"Also, the idea that the Scrivener developers are only targeting a specific demographic that doesn’t include me is utterly ridiculous. How could such a business model be sustainable?"

It’s very simple, there are many ways in which people author content, and some of them have very little overlap with other methods. There are many people who write using org-mode, which is even less like WYSIWYG than Scrivener. A good business model does not imply attempting to reach the broadest possible definition, particularly when a grouping is so very large as “writers”. It may, but it does not always. Sometimes very specific implementations are what make a thing successful.

"You do realize they are in the business to make money, right?"

By ‘they’ you mean me? This is in part my project, and I do believe I can speak for its intentions. :slight_smile: Making money isn’t the primary goal for us, and never has been. We’ve always been in this to make the best writing tool for people who are looking for a similar approach to writing as we are.

"Just because you have no interest in page numbers doesn’t mean that everyone who uses the software is drinking your particular mixture of koolaid."

Yeah, yawn. More fire.

But as I said before, that is how my writing methods work best, as an example of how your suggestion that we should just tweak a few settings to get things working more like a word processor is the solution. That you read this as a statement of absolute declaration meant to be applied to everyone is indicative of your overall attitude here. You think there is a “wrong” and a “right” to this question, and therefore if someone disagrees with you are they are wrong, or drinking koolaid, or unprofessional, etc.

So thanks to your behaviour here I’m locking this thread. There is no further benefit to discussion that essentially boils down to an Emacs vs Vim argument. There will never be a resolution to that, nor will there ever be a resolution between those who think word processors are the best way to write vs those that think word processors make a poor authoring environment.

That is why there are choices!

1 Like

The forum rules are very short:

"Be polite.

That’s pretty much it!"

It may not be your intention, but you come across as rather sarcastic and rude in most of your posts. If you care about your reputation it might be wise to consider this.
Happy writing! (… even with other tools than Scrivener ;) )

Uhhh…

Sorry. I didn’t realize sarcasm was a crime on the internet. As for rude, I’m not the one who blocked someone on the forum for disagreeing with them. And as for my reputation, I think I can survive being hated on this forum. I’m a customer. Can the forum’s admins say the same?

1 Like

Stop misgendering people, it’s rude as hell.

You weren’t blocked – the topic was locked. You’re still here and able to communicate.

We love the forum admins.