You are, perhaps, unaware of the False Consensus Effect. You are making the mistake of thinking that your personal views are more representative of the generality than they actually are. I personally have no difficulty in believing the rational explanations that have been offered ad nauseam on these forums.
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Dudebro, my dudebro, you don’t speak for me (and I suspect many others here will feel the same way) especially when you’re accusing KB of lying. A lot of us here on the forum have been here for many years and have our personal war stories of how iCloud sync doesn’t work as reliably as just about any other option. KB has been very clear on explaining what the issues are that keeps Scrivener from being able to work well with iCloud – as Scrivener projects are at least an order of magnitude more complicated of a file structure than most any other application you’re trying to sync.
It’s an unfortunate situation, and most people will understand you being disappointed, but that’s not a ticket to disrespecting someone you don’t even know who makes his living (and support a number of other people) writing this software.
This is probably the number-one requested feature. Do you honestly think that if there was any way to make iCloud play nicely with iCloud on iOS without sacrificing data safety or core Scrivener functionality (or kicking off yet another years-long rewrite process) that KB wouldn’t have done it already?
Note that L&L has stated multiple times that iCloud is fine to transfer Scrivener projects between desktops, as the iCloud sync app handles all the details transparently, provided the user follows all the recommendations for any sync engine, including:
- Only having the project open on one system at a time
- Disabling options that let the iCloud app selectively sync files for you,
- Ensuring that all sync operations are done before opening the project on a new computer.
The problem is on the iOS side of things – Apple’s APIs for iOS developers don’t give the necessary precision for the Scrivener app to have built-in support for iCloud and guarantee that the project files sync with as low of a risk of data loss as possible. KB has opened tickets with Apple and worked with their engineers to find a way to do it, but at this point, until they put the necessary functionality into iOS’s APIs, that’s stalled.
So the other option – and there are users who do this, and there is L&L guidance on how to do it – is to use iCloud to sync your projects to your iOS device, then use the Files app to transfer them in and out of the Scrivener application sandbox (the sandboxing between apps being a standard iOS security mechanism that the desktop apps don’t have to deal with, since iOS doesn’t have a shared filesystem like desktop OSs do.) It’s a lot more manual of a process than anyone is really comfortable with, but there are users who do it, and it works.
So if you really want to use iCloud + iOS + Scrivener, you can do it. It’s a bit like driving a stick shift instead of that nice simple automatic, but once you learn how not to grind the gears, it works.
Now, if you choose not to believe KB at that point, that’s your right. May I suggest that you go learn how to write cross-platform apps (including iOS) and show the world how to write an app that does what Scrivener does, with the same design priorities, and can integrate iOS iCloud sync at the same time? Since you clearly seem to know KB is lying about this, you obviously know how to implement it, so it shouldn’t take you that long…
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Keith said in November 2017 that iCloud Drive sync is not only possible but actually planned.
“I do have plans to make it so that our iOS version can open and desktop sync projects using iCloud Drive too, and I think I have a solution for this.”
And an update in July 2019, inferring that iCloud Drive sync is still under consideration:
"I would have to rewrite Scrivener from the ground up to support it. iCloud does support file packages - although I’m not sure how it would handle those of Scrivener’s complexity and potential size - but not the way Scrivener does them. And almost everything in Scrivener is built on its file handling. So it’s not something that can ever just be patched in - I’d need to take the very core of Scrivener apart and start again.
“I’m not saying (2) [iCloud sync] is never going to happen - but it’s not something that could be done in a few months.”
I believe Keith will be true to his word—when time and technology allow—and that iCloud Drive sync will be available in the future.
Merx
Let’s not put words in Keith’s mouth.
He didn’t say it WILL be available, he said he’s not saying it is never going to happen. There’s a BIG difference.
Keith has most definitely not made any promise!
Unequivocally Keith wrote:
I do have plans to make it so that our iOS version can open and desktop sync projects using iCloud Drive
He clearly has the will and the intention, if not yet the way. All these other negative statements are wildly inaccurate and dislocated from the facts.
Merx
Edit: All these negative comments risk harming Literature & Latte by putting off possible users who will be led into thinking that Keith has no intention of ever supporting iCloud sync.
I wish you would all stop damaging the company in this way with your dogmatic and entirely false statements.
Again, Keith has said that he would like to add iCloud sync, that iCloud sync in the most requested missing feature, and that he has plans to add iCloud sync.
So, for the benefit of the company, as well as current and future Scrivener users, please stop peddling mistruths, claiming that Scrivener can’t work with iCloud and implying that Keith isn’t going to implement (or going to try to implement) iCloud sync. You’re discrediting the company, the developer, and the product.
For Mac-to-Mac syncing, iCloud already works. Have some respect for Keith and the team at L&L, and have faith in their ability to develop the product when such development becomes possible.
And if you can’t do that, at least try to engage with the truth and stick to the facts. All these Trumpian falsehoods—and difficulties with reading and understanding what Keith has clearly said—are just ludicrous.
While we appreciate your support, by selectively emphasizing a single post from four years ago you are going too far in the other direction.
This more recent statement from your original post more accurately reflects the current situation:
"I would have to rewrite Scrivener from the ground up to support it. iCloud does support file packages - although I’m not sure how it would handle those of Scrivener’s complexity and potential size - but not the way Scrivener does them. And almost everything in Scrivener is built on its file handling. So it’s not something that can ever just be patched in - I’d need to take the very core of Scrivener apart and start again.
The current design of Scrivener is not compatible with iOS synchronization via Apple’s current implementation of iCloud. Changing the design of Scrivener would be an extremely large undertaking and would limit Scrivener’s functionality in several important ways. It is not at all clear that the benefits would outweigh the costs.
So while it is true that iCloud synchronization for iOS is a frequently requested feature that we would love to support, we have not announced anything resembling a development roadmap that might eventually lead to that goal.
So, as explained by L&L staff, there were no ‘Trumpian falsehoods’. I quoted Keith correctly (the more recent quote to your selective quote)
Don’t presume to know my intent (or politics), you end up looking an arse.
I have posted that PC and Mac can sync, but the problem is iOS. So, per L&L staff, there is no promise.
So, when you’re ready, an apology might be accepted.
Thanks, Katherine.
I am trying to balance out the attacks against other users and against the company.
Yes, no definitive roadmap. But Keith has talked about iCloud sync being possible and desirable on several occasions, so users shouldn’t be attacking other users for pointing out the same thing that Keith himself has said: it is possible, with changes.
And iCloud sync does work for Macs.
And yet comments on this thread wrongly imply that iCloud sync is impossible and that Keith doesn’t have the will or ability to develop his product. New readers to this and similar threads not only get the impression that the company isn’t capable of making developments, but they also see some users being harangued for making points that Keith has already made.
For me, these posts read like people defecating on the app and the company. Thoroughly wrong on so many levels.
For sure, I have given up syncing Scrivener with iOS and now use external-folder sync to get my work on to iCloud Drive. But I still need and want Scrivener to do well so that it is available to me and others in the future.
Roadmap or not, I have a firm belief that Keith will add full iCloud sync when such a move is possible. He has said he wants to, and until he comes along and says unequivocally that that will never be possible, I will continue to believe that his intentions remain as stated (even without a timeline attached).
It really doesn’t help to have people make dogmatic false statements and then set about disparaging other users on the forum.
I know Keith can do whatever he wants with Scrivener as he has the hard-earned security of its success to support him. But it would be a shame to lose possible new users through the false assertions made in this thread and the way in which those assertions are being made.
Your “no roadmap” statement is honest, clear, respectful, and hopeful. Other comments are false and, frankly, offensive.
With all respect to the entire L&L team
Merx
Good grief. Still struggling with the truth.
Merx
What about Keith’s subsequent post and Katherine’s that to achieve iOS synch at the present time would require a complete ground up re-write of Scrivener (and loss of functionality) do you not understand?
Until (or unless) there is a fundamental change in Apple’s iCloud implementation, unless Keith burns down Scrivener and starts from scratch there can be no implementation (and no promise to).
Keith has not promised to burn the house down, and at last look Tim Cook has not promised to re-write iCloud.
What alternative ‘truth’ are you drinking?
I’m going to post a little clarification.
Would it be good if iCloud sync were available for Scrivener iOS. For some, yes.
For me, with a VERY in depth knowledge of iCloud and issues surrounding, (I could fill a short story with horrors I have dealt with/seen) I limit and carefully control iCloud syncing of ANYTHING. I have 2TB of iCloud courtesy of work that I use for some backups, syncing that cannot be avoided. (and some shit I don’t care about losing or have secured elsewhere)
I most carefully control what goes to the iCloud folder and take steps tp ensure syncing is indeed complete. (I also have a careful backup strategy for when iCloud might, on a whim screw something).
Given the complexity of Scrivener projects, even if iOS Scrivener syncing were available right now, I would not choose to use it until such time (if ever) I and many wiser than me were satisfied with iCloud.
That said, iCloud is getting better and millions use it without (too much) issue.
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Again, phrasing things in this way shifts Keith’s emphasis so dramatically as to be potentially misleading, and therefore undermines the very point you are trying to make. People will point to your statement and say, “Well, if they really wanted to, they could,” and use that to justify exactly the attacks you are trying to oppose.
We have not announced a development roadmap that would ultimately lead to iCloud synchronization. For technical reasons – many of which are in Apple’s control, not ours – we may not ever be able to do so. For business reasons, we might ultimately determine that the changes we would need to make would cripple the product in other ways. Any implication to the contrary is false. Any parsing of past statements that leads to a different conclusion is misleading. Please stop.
I wonder if change is afoot. Quite recently, in August 2020, Keith was talking about coming to a software crossroads and of the sustainability of Scrivener in its current form. He also posed a question around adding iCloud support in some way (perhaps with a simpler version of Scrivener):
Suppose there were a simpler version of Scrivener - without so many options and perhaps with not many more features than the iOS version. But suppose this simpler version had iCloud support and could sync as seamlessly as other iCloud apps do (but also that this meant that it could not store research files inside a project because of the potential file size). Would that appeal?
And recently Ioa made an interesting point about change being necessary because tech changes over time:
There are periods of time where the colour of things change, and minor feature clusters are added or modified within a model, and then there are times of change when the whole premise must be rethought—because it’s been 15 or 20 years, and computers went from beige boxes belching hot air out the back and making cat scream noises over a phone line, to things you slip into a pocket, that pull the internet out of the atmosphere at a rate that would take a thousand screaming modems.
And Scrivener was released in 2007, some fourteen years ago.
And Keith indicated (in December 2020) that a lot of development had been going on behind the scenes (now for more than two years):
Just because we’ve been a little quiet on the update front over the past year or so, doesn’t mean that there’s not a lot of investment and work going on behind the scenes. But with Scrivener 3 not yet out on Windows, it’s difficult for us to talk about future plans beyond that.
Really looking forward to whatever Keith and L&L develop and release, especially as Keith was talking about iCloud sync as recently as August last year, though perhaps not with Scrivener as we know it.
Merx
You really don’t give up do you?
A member of the L&L staff has said:
‘We have not announced a development roadmap that would ultimately lead to iCloud synchronization. For technical reasons – many of which are in Apple’s control, not ours – we may not ever be able to do so.(my added emphasis) For business reasons, we might ultimately determine that the changes we would need to make would cripple the product in other ways. Any implication to the contrary is false. Any parsing of past statements that leads to a different conclusion is misleading. Please stop.’
And yet you ‘wonder if change is afoot’.
We all get you have a fixation on iCloud sync for iOS, (you really, really, really want it so) and many have a similar desire, but seriously, do you think your crystal ball knows stuff the L&L team don’t. They have not even completed bedding down the recently released Win version, have endless demands for an Android release and you think Keith is about to turn around and start again from scratch?
At some time in the future perhaps there may be changes, but ‘afoot’? 
Merx, you do understand that Katherine (@kewms) works for Literature & Latte right?
She has had ample opportunity to talk directly with KB (and provide input) about the future of Scrivener and understand the actual roadmap. Her grasp on this topic can be considered canonical, far beyond the scraps of comments that you are picking up here in the forums and trying to retcon a whole Rapture of the Words scenario from.
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We do not comment on future versions or unreleased features. Any conclusions you might draw from past forum posts are entirely speculative.
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I’m not sure anyone is having a ‘fixation’…
For my part, I love Scrivener and I have for probably a decade, but for the last couple of years my relationship with it has been on hiatus, because of the lack of iCloud sync between MacOS and iPadOS. I fully understand that the problem may not be solvable, but that doesn’t mean that the situation doesn’t make me sad, because Scrivener is great, the alternatives aren’t as good, but ultimately I would rather make do with the alternatives than install DropBox on my Mac at this point (Scrivener is the only app left that uses it). Every few months, or even every couple of years, I come here and lament this state of affairs (politely), then I try living with the Scrivener/Dropbox duo for a few weeks, then I am reminded of why I wanted out of it, and I disappear again. Whether my posts here are any use to the developers, who know perfectly well what they are doing, I don’t know – but I guess if they were fully uninterested in these comments they wouldn’t host a forum on their website.
What specifically is the issue? I ask as a genuine question as I and thousands of others have no problems at all with Dropbox. It works reliably.
We/L&L may be able to assist to address the issue.
I’ve had this discussion before with L&L, I doubt that the technical limitations (in iCloud) that they always mention have been solved since.
In short, Scrivener sync works without issue… provided that you press sync and remember to fully close the project, and give time for the changes to be uploaded, on each device, before you dare to open the project on the other device. This was a cutting edge user experience in 2006, but for years now it has not been how I (and many others) work in the real world.
In the real world, I’m typing on my iPad, then I may have to slap it shut quickly (say, my friend has arrived at the coffee shop, or my cab arrived, or whatever), and I may want to check on something in the project on my iMac that evening. The iPad is maybe still in my bag, or maybe I left it at work. Or I may even dare to have the project open on two devices at the same time! Perhaps accidentally, I forgot it close it on my iMac this morning and I’ve since left home, now I’m out and want to keep working on that project.
My point is just that the dropbox sync works if you are the textbook user, who is sitting down for a session of work, and then closing everything diligently, etc. Real life (mine at least) is way messier than that. Whenever I try to use dropbox and scrivener, I am soon in a never-ending loop of yellow conflict reconciliation pages, and it all just feels so slow and precarious.
Simpler apps than Scrivener can cope with this alright. In some you can have the same document open in many places simultaneously and watch it update in real time as you type on one of those devices. But of course, those are simple word editors I’m talking about, and Scrivener is a more complex beast.
For me, ultimately I prefer to sacrifice some functionality to have a synced app that I can rely on. But I know I’m in the minority here, of course
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This specific scenario is why the auto-quit function exists.