Improve stylesheet support for footnotes and endnotes

BTW, does this mean that impossibility for a user to export a footnote to Word or LibreOffice with its own „footnote style“ (now a footnote is ending up with „No Style“ in the .doc or .odt file) is also caused by some problems with Scrivener ground level design? A year ago the explanation was there is no such an „option“ in MacOS version, even though it hard to believe every Mac user is happy with this fundamental problem.

Moderator note: discussion forked to new thread in wish list forum, from here.

They aren’t really related at all. The matter I was referring to is the conundrum that is dynamically generating outline hierarchy in a word processing document based on fixed-level/formatting layout assignments, which has conceptual design issues that are difficult to resolve without making everything very complicated to understand.

The matter you bring up is more within the category of executing syntax, possibly a technical limitation in where things can be influenced or that third-party conversion tools do not support, or simply a matter of conceivable scope (we have no desire to build a full-specification RTF generator into the compiler).

In this case, it may well be the reliance upon unnecessary conversion filters. At least for what I get, when I compile to Scrivener’s native format (RTF) and open that in LibreOffice, my footnotes are styled to “Footnote”, on both platforms. Generally speaking if a word processor can load RTF well, it’s better to let it handle the conversion to its native format.

Maybe that it works fine with RTF is why we don’t hear much about it? I don’t know, I don’t really know much about word processors at all, but it seems like bulk formatting footnotes shouldn’t be too difficult.

I am more than intrigued with that. First of all, last Spring, I tried to export to .RTF, .DOC, .ODT-file formats many times, and the result was always the same, namely: the style for footnotes was ‘Normal’ (at least, in Word 2016 and a few newest versions of Libre Office). (And I have just made one more try–with no success.)

The saddest thing was, the footnotes’ style was the same as of the „body“ text, which–just conceptually speaking–ruined the very basic semantic principle of styling, that is: each type of information (body, quotation, headers, footnotes, etc.) should have its own tag (or, okay, no one for one special type–no problem) and any (visual) formatting is applied to these various types of information. That’s how it is expected to work.

On the practical side, that meant I could not effectively apply any alternative template to the exported text (in, say, Libre Office). So for now, I have to work on finishing stages of my texts not in Scrivener, but directly in my word processor, which is just epic disappointment. (Though, the conceptual part disturbs me even more…)

In any case, it would be fantastic if you could show me how to get footnotes properly styled at least to .RTF.

Just in case, there were some discussions on the topic just about a year ago, maybe you should be updated: [SUGGESTION:4432] [B42] Compile to Ms Word errors.

Not sure what is going with your setup. It works for me with a very simple checklist:

  1. New blank project.
  2. Type in “Test this.”, then hit the shortcut for inline footnote and type in “Footnote.”
  3. File ▸ Compile…
  4. Switch to RTF, click the Compile button.

In LibreOffice with the styles panel set to “Assigned Styles”, I get two styles: “Default Paragraph Style” and “Footnote”.

Does this mean we can create and format a style called Footnote in Scrivener?

So far as I see after some research, it just means that:

(1) Inline Footnotes in a compiled .RTF-file do have ‘Footnote Style’ tag in LibreOffice (but not in Word), while Inspector Notes don’t. They are styled ‘Default’ paragraph style (or ‘Normal’ in Word). — I didn’t know this before because I never use Inline footnotes;

(2) however, real formatting of the Scrivener Inline Footnote in final .RTF-document is not of the (LibreOffice or Word) default Footnote style. In fact, it is of the paragraph style that contained the Inline Note in Scrivener. To get rid of that overwritten format parameters you have to do Format > ‘Clear Direct Formatting’ (in LibreOffice) for each footnote.

Not absolutely sure, but if it really works this way, it is even weirdier than I thought.

Just to Tiho, very appreciative this will get healthy in next release - knowing ran into it again this morning, and it will be nice not to need to work around.

You work very hard and well, my friend :slight_smile:

footnotes – yes, as can do; bullets in there also – there’s so much I am very aware having challenges. It took Microsoft years – and a pretty reckoned ‘genius’, to get Word to work right originally at all, that’s the memory, for sense of proportioni…

All right, I don’t actually see the stylesheet issue happening as you describe in LibreOffice, but that may be beside the point. It looks like the RTF codes themselves indicate the inline footnote is using whatever style is attached to the paragraph it was written within (in this case I used compile settings to apply a “Body” compile format style to all text) while the inspector footnote uses the \s0, or “normal” style.

I would imagine in most cases one would want to use the setting that overrides the font family and size in the Footnotes & Comments compile format pane, unless they were meticulous about formatting each footnote throughout the entirety of the draft themselves.

But duly noted otherwise, LibreOffice may be doing something to override underlying style assignments in the document—maybe that’s a setting somewhere in the software.

I’ve added these notes to the list for future research, and in the meanwhile have forked this conversation into a new thread in the wish list area.

When you think of it in terms of preferring to respect your formatting choices rather than preferring a unified central look, it may make more sense. Now you may not want that, or agree that it is important, but that is how it was designed to work. That is why inspector footnotes act differently from inline, because chances are they have different formatting while writing.

It still surprises me that this is a real-world problem (beyond the ideal of Doing Thing Right, I mean to say). It seems like it should be trivial to nuke all direct formatting and assign a style to footnotes and endnotes in a word processor. Maybe there is a macro for that.

You may, but it won’t have any effect nor will be applied to any text. LibreOffice seems to be overriding the stylesheet assignment on some level, in further testing.