Scrivener: blowing chunks since 2005.
I think we have our new tagline!
And the T-shirt:
Scrivener: Do You Spew?
I would buy it.
Seriously Keith, not picking at any old scabs here, but it is an idea. A simple Word processor that allows notes and integrated with my desktop Scrivner, I would easily pay for that. I dislike the kludgey feel of using pages.
Don’t need polish, need functionality.
Sorry for bringing politics into this. I should’ve known … 
But, hey, obviously Steve himself wants us Germans to blame the government. 
That’s interesting to know and all, but I can categorically state that I am not, personally, going to be creating an iPad app. That’s pretty much my final word on the matter. My iPad is a lovely thing - I’m browsing apps and downloading Disney Fairies Fly for my daughter (the kids love it, it’s a great toy for children) - but I’m seriously bemused that people are doing serious writing on this thing. All power to them (and you), but I’m not going to be one of them, and so I am not going to write an iPad app that isn’t for me; I’d rather work on software I’ll actually use myself. BUT. That doesn’t rule out someone else looking into it, of course, but you’ll just have to wait and see on that score. 
But in the meantime, let’s not dredge up the old, boring, “Scrivener for iPad” debate, because I’ve said everything I’ve got to say on that for now; let’s stay on topic and just discuss the iPad in general.
Thanks!
Keith
For me the iPad is a dream come true. I bought it a few days ago in Chicago and have hardly touched my MacBook ever since. I use the iPad almost exclusively as a writing tool. I have always been a “writer on the go” and hated being nailed to a desk or a room - so this is perfect for me. I do miss Scrivener very much though.
R.
A few more things…
One of my iPad’s big advantages as a writing and research tool is that I got the 64GB model, which I have loaded with about a dozen movies. There are times when I really need to take my mind off of my writing. Being able to watch a comedy or some other likely movie is just perfect for that. And yes, this really was a prime consideration for me when I bought the thing. Of course, this goes back to the fact that I am often on a train for three-quarters of an hour at a time.
The fact that a few of these movies are ones my step-daughter likes, and that I know we can go somewhere in the car without worrying about charging the iPad or whether it has something interesting to watch on it is another big advantage.
I have also used it as a “second monitor.” It can be handy to display a PDF on the iPad while I am typing on my iMac, analogous to having a book open on the desk. Although the advantage of this over just switching to an app on the main computer might seem slight, it is one of those many little things – in the context of the big shift in paradigm that people have referred to – that add up to a big difference in my computing experience.
But the “living room” advantages people have brought up are a big deal for me, too. One night, we were watching a movie and my step-daughter was doodling in “Brushes,” which is the app that Jorge Colombo used to draw magazine covers for the New Yorker on his iPhone. It was really great for her to be sitting there drawing while we were enjoying the movie!
I have lots of photos in my iPad, including several versions of a well-known portrait of Virginia Woolf from 1902, one of which is now my lock screen wallpaper. This may sound silly, but turning on the iPad and seeing this picture is really inspirational, in a small sort of way.
Weird! I just can’t imagine using it the iPad as a writing machine! To me, it would be like using an old rubber-keyed ZX Spectrum for serious typing. (Rochefore: If you move to the iPad for writing then you would have to miss Scrivener’s main features no matter what, because even if we created a version of Scriv for iPad, the iPad just is fundamentally not capable of anything more than a basic editing and card tool. Glad you’re liking your iPad, though.)
Anyway, I juts downloaded Kineo - flipbook drawing - and wasted most of my afternoon. Fun! Damn, more procrastination temptations…
Best,
Keith
I meant to say that I got the 32GB model…
Keith, I don’t think you’re hearing what Ahab and others are suggesting: they don’t want a baby Scriv, they want a simple note-taking / drafting app that has hooks to Scrivener in the way of import and export. I think if you play with one or two of those apps, like SimpleNote, you’ll see that it’s quite easy to write on the iPad. My one proviso is forego the virtual keyboard and use the wireless; it completely transforms the iPad into a legitimate writing machine—more compact and versatile than a net book. Yes, it’s possible to do already, but you have to kludge it together: save the copy as an e-mail, or synch it to a server, and then go through more steps at home to pull the chunks into Scrivener.
What would be lovely is to set up the Pad chunks as belonging to a Scriv project, and then open that file and synch the Pad stuff, wirelessly. Bento and Things do that, but in the case of Scriv, all that’s needed is a conduit to make the transfer happen. I’m not talking about moving a project back and forth, just pieces of it; the orts and scraps that Amber previously described. (I think orts and scraps is a phrase from Virginia Woolf.)
The whole point of this thread I started is to verify that the Pad IS a writing and research tool. I knew that it would be, early on; that’s why I was one of the early buyers. Several others in the forum clearly agree, and the potential in this area is only getting better. So my challenge to you is: get yourself a wireless keyboard, and a OD card holder (or something) to prop up the Pad near the keyboard. Start typing notes, whatever you want. Make a list of tasks. Free-write about that novel. Review a book or film. Edit if you wish, or just type away. Then transfer that copy to your main computer via e-mail. Then reflect on the writing experience, which I hope took place at some distance from the study, enjoying a hot cuppa, some good music, a view out the window…and all the while you were WRITING on this amazing little device, running on its long-term battery, with no wires attached.
And imagine how nice it would be to have opened a little Scrivener Notepad, resembling that in home base Scrivener, done all the writing in the SN, and sent its contents to a safe place, ready to pull into your OS X machine when you wish. And if your rebuttal is that one can already do that on a laptop, you’re right, but we ought to be able to do it in this venue as well. Again, I’m not describing a port of Scrivener itself, just an easy way to transfer pieces of text between Scrivener and the iPad. Like this post, written and edited on my iPad. Et voila, a piece of writing!
That’s a good clarification, druid. I don’t have an iPad yet, but I do use SimpleNote a lot on my iPhone to take notes that I then bring into Scrivener via the Services menu, either selecting the entire note in simplenote and clipping it to a text document, which I then import into the appropriate Scrivener project, or clipping it directly (again via the Services menu) to an open Scrivener project. I realize this take several steps, but it still seems pretty easy, especially since I have keyboard shortcuts set up for those clipping options. So, can you or others clarify just how a Scrivener iPad/iPhone conduit or clipper or whatever you’d call it would further simplify this process?
Are you suggesting, for example, a way to quickly get a note taken on an iPad directly into a particular Scrivener project, maybe without the intermediate step of saving to a text file? I’ve long wanted the ability to clip selected text (whether a note on my iPhone or from a webpage or email message on my Mac) to a specific scrivener project, but it’s not such a big deal to clip to a textfile (via keyboard shortcut in Services) and then import it to whatever Scrivener project I want.
Are you suggesting typing our iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch notes directly into a Scrivener conduit rather than Apple’s Notes or SimpleNote or WriteRoom or whatever, and then that note would synch (wirelessly?) with my Mac’s Scrivener projects?
Would it also work in the other direction, i.e. if I had docs in a Scriv project on my Mac, I could somehow directly export them to my iPad/iPhone?
Anyway, as a likely future iPad owner, I’m just curious to know what a Scrivener iPad connector might do, exactly. Not that I expect you to know what’s technically feasible given Keith’s limited resources etc., just the goals you see it accomplishing.
No, Druid, if you’ve followed the various threads you’ll know that I am well aware that most people are just asking for simple note-taking version of Scrivener.
Yes, I have done. And I hate writing on the thing. I’m not saying that no one will want to write on the thing - clearly that would be completely wrong as you are already using it to write. I’m just saying that it bemuses me that those of you who are using it like this find it fine, as I find it awful for this sort of use - even simple note-taking. I know I’m in the minority, but that is just the way I find it. I’m not being negative for the sake of it; I really like the iPad for everything else, and I’m finding it difficult to prise out of the hands of the rest of the family just to get a turn. But now that I have it in my hands and am trying it out, my early suspicions are confirmed - it’s not something I can see myself wanting to use as a writing platform.
Again: I’m just saying how I’m getting on with it, just as you started this thread to report your experience. So, I will go out on a limb and say that, based on my own experience, not everyone is going to find this a good fit for writing. Some will - like yourself and some other posters - but others will find it horrible for writing; I surely cannot be alone. But maybe I am, hey.
I tried plugging it into the keyboard dock last night and did some typing on it. And I fully admit that the typing away on the keyboard was fast and fluid, and you could certainly type a good deal of material that way. It’s also quite nice using Pages in portrait mode with the keyboard - it looks cool. However… If you plug it into an external keyboard then it needs to be on a flat surface such as a desk, otherwise it is not stable enough. You cannot write on your lap using this set-up. So yes, you have a legitimate writing machine when the keyboard is plugged in, but it’s one that still falls short of a MacBook, which is more stable and doesn’t need to be placed on a desk.
I understand that the argument is that the iPad+keyboard is lighter and thus more mobile (and has better battery life), but for myself I would much rather take my laptop for serious writing or work. I’m not trying to convince anyone or argue that your set-up is silly; clearly you like it and it works for me. All I’m saying is that for me this is a horrible set-up in comparison to my MacBook. To me, as a writing platform my MacBook is stable, portable, more versatile and less of a hack. And it is capable of running much better dedicated writing software and text engines.
I do concede, however, that if I was going on holiday for a weekend away, then the iPad would be a nice choice as it would be a fun gaming device on which I could - at a push - make a few notes, which I could then get onto my real writing machine when I return home. But then… Well, as I’ve said all along, when it comes to a mobile note-taking device… I like my Moleskine.
Sorry, does that mean that no one is allowed to disagree? I thought the point of this thread was for you to report on how you got along with the iPad as a writing and research tool. Now that I have my iPad and am trying it out for similar things, I’m just reporting on my own experience as a counterpoint. I’m not slagging off the iPad - I like it - and I’m not trying to say that nobody else would want to use it as a writing and research device, but I am offering an alternative opinion. All I am doing is being honest about my own experience; I didn’t realise that all replies to this thread were only allowed to reinforce the idea of the iPad as a great tool for this purpose! Whilst many iPad buyers may use it as a writing device, my own experience is that, for me, it’s not at all suited to this sort of thing in comparison with devices I already have. (It will be interesting to see whether Windows users start replacing netbooks with iPads, or whether only Mac users will see the iPad as a true netbook replacement. )
But bear in mind that I’m not much of a mobile phone user, either, and have never felt the desire to use my iPod Touch or mobile phone for taking notes; and yet I understand that there are plenty of users who do exactly this. Again, I’m not saying anyone’s wrong. Whatever works for you. But by the same token, you have to realise that there us dinosaurs who prefer a solid laptop for writing etc.
“Orts and scraps” - I like that. I think we have another contender.
I don’t understand. Surely this can only be put down to gadget love? All of this I can do on my MacBook, and I love the writing experience on my MacBook. I felt this gadget love for my iBook, and now I feel it for my MacBook (I had two MacBooks in between - different models - which I didn’t feel this about), for some reason. And, as I say, I have tried writing on the iPad with an external keyboard - yes, it works nice enough. But I guess I just don’t “get” it.
Ought…? Had Windows users ought to be able to have this, too? And Linux users, and iPhone users, and Blackberry users, and…? Sorry, I don’t do “ought”.
As I say, I’m not ruling anything out at all. I am saying that I wouldn’t be the best person to write a version of Scrivener for the iPad, though. I don’t rule out finding some way of transferring notes better in the long run. And I’m joining in this thread not really to comment on Scrivener for the iPad - that topic is already boring and discussed to death - but just to add my own experiences with this nifty little gadget. I’m not saying I don’t like the writing experience on it just because I don’t want to develop for it - I’ve already said that I don’t have the resources to do that myself and would use someone more enthusiastic about writing for another platform to develop for the thing - so my reports here have absolutely no bearing on whether or not we will eventually provide some form of Scrivener for the iPad. That is still being investigated. But despite all of your challenges, I’m afraid that for me I can’t see myself getting any serious writing done on the iPad. Again: I do not doubt that many people will, and that many people will love it. But for me - if only just me! - the iPad has really made me appreciate how much I love my MacBook for writing.
I’m not being closed-minded - I will mess around some more and see how I feel about it as time goes on; who knows, I may change my mind. But hopefully you don’t see anything wrong with someone posting in a thread on the “iPad as a writing/research tool” to offer the contrary opinion that it isn’t going to be great for this purpose for everyone.
But don’t worry, you don’t need to persuade me of anything. I wouldn’t be coding an iPad version personally anyway. We might have more news on that anon…
All the best,
Keith
One thing I have noticed is that the wi-fi on the iPad is akin to the wi-fi on my iPod Touch, and not as good as the wi-fi on my MacBook. The wi-fi in my house isn’t always very strong, sadly, so my Touch has always had problems connecting upstairs, and now my iPad has the same problems (my MacBook and other non-mobile devices have no problems connecting anywhere in the house). This is less of an iPad failure and more to do with dodgy wi-fi in my house, but it does mean that I can’t use the iPad for the one thing I was hoping just yet - browsing the internet news sites etc before I get up on a weekend. 
Maybe I should start a separate thread about wi-fi-boosters.
Best,
Keith
I don’ t think anybody could honestly argue that the iPad keyboard in any way holds up to a regular hardware keyboard. But it is by far not as bad as I expected it to be. Before buying an iPad I spent a half hour typing away on one in an Apple Store. I was about to buy a regular netbook but the experience in the Apple store won me over.
The one and only thing that really speaks for the iPad as a writing tool is its portability. Enormous battery life, minimal weight, minimal size, no moving parts inside.
This may have come up in this thread already, but what will keep me from buying an iPad right now is the scenario in which I have to work on the road: Someone sends me a .doc or .xls to review or work on and I have to send it back then.
I know: iWork imports and exports those files, but on my desktop I have to use Office, because there may be macros in the files or a complex layout which iWork destroys. Or I simply have to take a ton of earlier files with me for reference. And I may have to cross check 3 or 4 files at the same time.
Using my Macbook (with all current and old files on it) + cellphone modem I have no problems at all. With the iPad I may be able to do things like “please review this PDF and mail me your comments”, but not much more. And I wouldn’t want to carry a Macbook (not even Air) AND an iPad with me.
Oh, forget it. I probably WILL be carrying Macbook and iPad with me, sooner or later. Who am I kidding?
Druid,
So what you are suggesting is that the need is not specifically a version of scriv, but an improved way to get/automate information retrieval from the iPad into a scriv project. Is this correct?
That would work for me. The iPad’s utility, on the writing front, seems best suited as a chunk producer. Scrivener, as we all know, is the ultimate chunk arranger/organizer/massager and is great as a producer as well. But the ideas for chunks and orts and other useful tinies get produced not just at the desk but all over the place, and we (or perhaps more accurately, I) end up with stacks of 3x5 cards and Moleskine pages that both need to be transcribed into Scrivener and, typically, aren’t as detailed as they might be because there’s only so much space on a 3x5 card, and because the longer you (I) write by hand, the more my Palmer-method runes come to resemble the trail of a wounded flea.
There’s whole crowds of things I’d like an iPad to do for me–read and reject or accept manuscripts chief among them–but a critically useful tool would be to capture ideas as chunks of writing, more detailed than a 3x5 card, and then export them easily to Scrivener, perhaps to land in an inbox as separate cards, ready to be dragged into the appropriate project. Actually exporting them from the iPad to a specific project seems overkill. At least for me. Druid’s mileage may vary (after all, he’s actually playing with one 24/7; I only messed about with one at Best Buy and read whatever I could find on the Web that seemed useful and thoughtful and decidedly unsycophantic).
But my experience using a Newton and an iPaq for a few years left me with a clear impression of what an outboard digital-input device could most usefully do for me, as a writer.
Yes, that’s correct. Currently the best exchange options are:
Pages: e-mail, iWork.com, or export as pages, pdf, or doc.
Simple Note: e-mail, synch to SN server. (More services for $8.99 a year)
Sundry Notes: e-mail, share on Facebook, to my computer via iTunes
GoodReader, iDisk, and Dropbox all offer ways to exchange files, too.
It could be that SimpleText.ws is a way to go, since Scriv has that import option.
Perhaps Jesse is at work on an iPad version; would be nice if it handled RTF files.
Anyway, I shall dream on.
We had the same problem with our old Airport and finally bought the Airport Extreme. It expanded coverage by threefold and also seemed much faster. The Airport Express can also boost coverage, when tied to the main base station. Networking is a black art; twice I had to go to Apple stores and get the folks at the Genius Bar to clear up problems caused by old dead preferences and the like.
KB, to use your favorite exclamation, Crikey. I wrote my little screed late last night and your response came early this morning. I’m fine with your disinterest in the iPad for writing, and of course anyone can disagree with my views (try to stop them!) I probably am guilty of “gadget love,” but I do think I can do my version of “serious writing” (no, not code); all I really want to do is transfer notes readily. The hook that Scrivener has to SimpleText is suggestive, but it only wants plain text files.
You are the builder of this house and I’m the renter. If I were able to remodel on my own, I would; the only alternative is to make suggestions and hope they are workable. If not, then your contrary posts are welcome. You are better at listening to user talk than any developer I’ve ever encountered.
To be honest, the more I use it, the more I’m grudgingly loving it. For me the key is how well I get on with the software keyboard, and I’m already getting faster on it - when I can actually get a go on the thing; my kids absolutely love it. And why wouldn’t they? They are six and four, young enough that this is going to be how they see computing. Suddenly there’s no barrier to my four-year-old controlling things - she can just use her finger. Educational spelling and maths games are suddenly immediate - she doesn’t have to struggle with a mouse first (even though they are both fine with a mouse, living in a geek household).
To be clear: I do want to ensure it becomes easier to get stuff from the iPad to Scrivener in the future. The frustration at the moment is that I just have to clear 2.0’s feature set before I can think about anything else.
Thanks for the wi-fi tip. I think I just need to buy a new router or something. We just use the one that Sky provided us with, and Sky aren’t exactly great with hardware.
Best,
Keith