is it 100% safe?

So, I imported my files into scrivener a few days back, and I’m now debating wether or not to splash out and buy it just before Camp Nano.

The only problem that’s stopping me is that there seems to be a lot of people who’s scrivener either crashes or won’t open. If it wasn’t for this, I would be right there, money in hand.

See, I’ve been using the software Ywriter since forever and I absolutely love it, I have never had a problem with it, once when my computer did crash out on me, all my project were easy to get back in seconds from the backup files.

So how safe is scrivener? I’ve been working on my project for 3 years now, so it’s huge and I might have a nervous break down if it won’t open or heaven forbid I lose the whole lot of it.

I just want to know, if there is someway around to make it 100% safe to write on, whether I have to do certain stuff, I don’t mind. I just need to know my files are safe and aren’t going anywhere.

Thanks. :smiley:

Well in my experience there is no such thing as 100% with computers. There are just too many tens of millions of instructions going on at so many levels, hardware and software, and many of these levels have been abandoned for decades in the deepest parts of the OS. Hardware, being subject to physics, suffers the results of entropy and that can in turn degrade the software if there is a feedback loop. I’m not saying anything new here, just that I don’t think anyone can say even Notepad.exe is 100%. :slight_smile:

So that aside we have statistics, and you’re definitely going to hear more problems than not, and especially so on a technical support forum that spans back into the beta eras of this software. The huge majority have been using Scrivener, as you have yWriter, for years without hassle, and most of them never even come to the forum. As for my own anecdotal experience, I’ve of course been using Scrivener for Windows (and often in a capacity which pushes its limits further than routine use would demand of it) ever since before it was released as an early public beta—and I’ve yet to lose a single word in it. The Mac version, which can’t really be compared even though it has similar protective measures, I’ve been using for close to seven years now for real and “testing” purposes—and again, I’ve never lost a single letter.

Yup, it messes up sometimes (though more often it’s the system underneath Scrivener that messes up; especially so when complicated by third-party software that synchronises work automatically to servers) so the best we can do is build protection into the system to defend against that as best as possible. As with yWriter, we make routine backups of your project. Whenever it is closed, a zipped copy of the entire project is created and stored away in a safe place away from where it cannot be accidentally deleted. By default five copies are saved in this fashion before rotating the oldest one out. This can all be changed in your program options. You can for example have the backup folder arrange to put files on Dropbox, which will in turn protect you from a total system crash, especially if you use more than one computer with the account. You can also set it to backup when you open as well as close, or even whenever you hit Ctrl-S. It can be instructed to never delete old backups as well. In addition to all of that, you can (and we encourage you to) make routine backups of your own that are outside of the automated system. This is very easy to do with the File/Back Up menu.

Meanwhile, the format is auto-save oriented. Every time you pause for more than a couple of seconds, your work is written to the disk so that in the even of a crash you shouldn’t lose more than a few minutes if not seconds of work. Inside the project itself, you have Snapshots (think versions), which protect all of the individual pieces. You take a snapshot and it becomes an immutable frame in time for that piece of the book or background file.

Is that 100%? Of course not, but is it safe? I would say so. Data loss errors resulting from the software itself are from what I’ve seen, far less common than OS crashes, hardware failures, and other such issues.

Ioa-iffer et al,

Might a suggest a small statistical exercise:

  1. Tell us the total number of known Scrivener users.
  2. Tell us the total number of known beta users.
  3. Tell us the total number of unique users who report crashes.
  4. Tell us the total number of unique beta users who report crashes.
  5. Repeat 3 & 4 for data loss.
  6. Tell us the number of self inflicted instances (third party apps, silly user tricks) for 3-5.

I think that would provide some interesting information for those that are concerned about scrivener stability.

What would probably be more accurate is total number of projects that have been used, say, more than once, against how many projects have malfunctioned for any reason (including lightning strikes) that resulted in genuinely lost data (not in any backup anywhere); and then another slice against malfunctions specifically caused by production (non-beta) versions of Scrivener on account of no reason other than a bug in the code itself. Who knows what those numbers would look like, but it would probably be similar to the sorts of numbers you see touted as uptime by Web hosts. 99.9% and all that. As far as reports of crashing goes, there are far more crashes than there are instances of data loss. Even the crashes are a small percentage, to be clear, but within the crashes data loss is a small percentage itself. So that says to me the safety net is pretty good and beyond that the software is pretty stable (meaning you most likely won’t need the safety net).

Since computer people like car analogies: It is a bit like saying I’ve seen car crashes, if it is my job to stare at traffic cameras all day long and help analyse what caused the car crash. Will you be in a car crash on the drive home? 99.9% likely not to, but if you hang out on traffic cam sites, read up on statistics about it, and maybe even do the occasional YouTube search, yeah—you’re going to see more than what your odds of a crash actually are. Moral of the metaphor: always wear your seatbelt, but don’t let it keep you from getting where you need to go. :slight_smile:

For what it’s worth, I use Scrivener for everything I write these days, from creative things, to stuff I’m getting paid to write, and blog posts. If I had a problem, it existed between keyboard and chair. :mrgreen: For what it’s worth, during most of the beta I was using the Windows version under WINE, and it’s been rock-solid, which is a credit to the programmers involved. (WINE seems to amplify anything that’s wrong.)

This is a “If I don’t know how to fix it, should I break it” quandry?

Here is my own view: With the right back-up precautions you can mitigate almost all meaningful levels of risk.

Scrivener has it’s own internal built safeguards, which are numerous and in my opinion more than enough to give me complete confidence in the programs stability when it comes to data recovery.

On top of that I regularly compile my work to a “standard” format (.rtf and good old fashioned print) so that I have a readable version if I can’t access Scrivener files for some reason. I also use an online storage service to keep a back up of files every now and again that means I have a level of protection against hard-drive failure.

Between all of these measures I’m confident that it would take not one thing going wrong but about seven things going wrong for me to lose more work than I can reasonably recreate from memory. Even if two of those things are fire and theft.

And for reasons others have mentioned, those are effectively the residual risk of using a computer and exist no matter what softwar you are using.

But, hey, I think the guys and dolls at L&L should be pretty proud that Scrivener has something to offer that can tempt even the most evangelical users of other software over to at least try out the free demo! :smiley: I hope you like the software, I know it really suits the way I like to write and structure documents.