Key Word drop downs and confirm on delete?

I’ve been using a lot of key words with my scenes and I’m very excited about the potential to search and monitor everything. BUT something happened and I lost the entire Character folder in the Key Word HUD. This was not a major issue. I have re-added all my characters but it did make me nervous. The only thing I can think of is that I must have hit the delete button.

Could a “Confirm on Delete” be added to the HUD and Key Words sections?

Additionally is there a way to relate Key Words by using a drop-down? For example, the HUD would have the master list and in the Key Words section of the Inspector, we could select the one we want from a drop-down. That way, I can’t mis-spell or mis-write it-> I know they are connected.

Also, in the same vein, can these allow an edit? Currently if we change our mind about the keyword, we have to delete it and re-enter it. I would love to be able to just edit it in the HUD and have that filter through all my scenes with the new name.

Thanks for your consideration.

Yes, you probably just accidentally deleted the entire characters section. A few of the things you mention will be improved or fixed in the next version of Scrivener.

  1. Keywords will no longer be so easy to accidentally delete
  2. When entering keywords, autocompletion will be available to help with consistency and ease of input

This, you can already do. Just click on it twice (not a double-click), and rename it (this behaviour is similar to the Finder). When you do this, it will ask if you want to update all of the associated keywords in the project as well, which from what you described is what you want to do.

Hi Gabby,

Your suggestion has actually been very helpful! Although I had implemented these things for 2.0, upon reading your suggestion, I realised that the “confirm deletion” panel took no account of sub-keywords in my 2.0 code. So I have just fixed it to do so. In doing so, I noticed a couple of other bugs in the 2.0 keywords system that I had missed, so your suggestion has just led not only to an improvement but also to the avoidance of a couple of minor bugs that could otherwise have crept into the initial 2.0 release.

Pretty much everything you want is coming with 2.0. You can already auto-complete keywords, though, by hitting cmd-period or opt-Escape after starting typing the keyword in the keywords pane. (2.0 will suggest the completions automatically.)

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

AmberV- thank you. I thought I tried everything but apparently not (I was clicking too quickly). lol That works great.

Keith- The drop down does show up for me now so no more fear of mis-spelling something. Also glad I could be at least in someway helpful too. :wink:

When does 2.0 come out? (no hurry obviously, since the version I have is pretty nifty, just curious). Also, is the upgrade just free or how does that work exactly?

Disclaimer I am a fellow Scrivener user, not a member of the company, so I’m answering what I’ve seen said before.

2.0 is a major upgrade, so it will cost. I’ve not seen any numbers associated with that.

The date for its release keeps getting bumped back. The most recent date I’ve seen mentioned was May of next year, but I think that was last month’s guesstimate and there may be an updated one by now.

I’m still shooting for May of next year (I’m a couple of weeks behind schedule already though :slight_smile: ). It will be a paid upgrade, yes - somewhere around half-price for registered users.
All the best,
Keith

Sounds good!

I had an idea about Key Words. I thought the best place might be here rather than a new thread…?

Would it be possible to associate the Key Words in the HUD with a document. By adding a character to the key word section of synopses, you automatically have your character sheet (or location sheet, etc) at the click of a button from the synopses.

My scenario is say I am tracking Jane Smith’s presence in every scene and the Town Hall location. If I need to remind myself which hand has the funny birthmark or which street the town hall is located, I can quickly click on [a button or dot??] next to the key word (or in the synopses) and bring up that sheet/template (that I have linked via the keyword HUD). I can add a new detail (just figured out she has brown eyes) or grab that detail I’ve forgotten from the character sheet.

Sorry, I’m having some trouble explaining this.
I know there are URLs but I thought this way you could just maintain your keywords and they become useful for even more then just tracking their presence throughout the scene and prevents some of the clicking around.

Thanks for your consideration!

Hmm, there would no real way of doing this as everyone uses keywords differently. But you can associate a character sheet document with the references pane of the inspector, which would do exactly what you want.
All the best,
Keith

Just to clarify- I was kind of hoping that the key words could be one-stop shopping. Since the author cares enough about that part of the story to track it, it would be useful to be able to recall important details about that thing. (That’s what made me think it would be nice if it just linked to a document in the reference page.). I guess, (I don’t know how to ask for clarification without being pushy) but I’m trying to imagine what item would be in Key Words that it wouldn’t be nice to be able to jot a few notes about it (or have a document linked directly to it from your reference folder). And my thinking was this would prevent me from having to setup the relevant Key Word in both the Document References and the Key Word sections of each scene where that particular item appears in the story.

Anyway I appreciate your time and “ear.” :smiley: I will certainly use both tabs of the synopses for this purpose.

thanks! (I LOVE, LOVE Scrivener so please forgive me for trying to push for this feature.)

I don’t use keywords much, yet, but when I do use them, it’s to keep track of who’s actually in a scene, who’s mentioned, and where it’s located. I’m thinking they might also be useful to bear character injuries in mind, but I’ll chew on that.

On the top level of the hierarchy, I have a folder I call “Characters”. I’m still working on this, but the goal is for each character to have his own document, detailing their descriptions and every line involving him from the actual story (or so’s the goal). The goal is to limit the keywords to be used for main details instead of for every little character, and using the links to suffice for major scene players. That would let me separate the types of references.

Using keywords as the links would therefore be awkward for me, and how would you determine which editor to open them in if you were in the HUD?

I am curious to know how other people are using key words. What do you mean by “limiting to main details”/what types of things do you track with key words? (I can only think of character, location, magical items/etc, tension, etc… I would be glad for more ideas though for my project).

I’m not sure what you mean by which type of editor though (probably because I’m a newbie). My thought was that it would either be just a text/sticky note type thing where you can add notes that would follow you through every scenes you associate the key word with. Alternatively it would link to a regular document so it would open just like any other document (and default to whatever your settings are for documents). My main goal would be to minimize clicking around to get to the info I want and to make one thing serve many purposes (so setting up one thing gives me multiple benefits).

Also, do you have time to elaborate on the awkward part? I am very curious about the downside because I haven’t used the app enough to really understand that side. My thought is that it would be something you could take advantage of if you wanted to but I can’t see that it would force you to start tracking every little detail. You still just list the ones that are important enough to you to track (and choose whatever doc that you want associate with a key word/whatever content you want to put in that doc). And you’d still have the Document References for all the links you want to associate to a particular scene but aren’t related to a Key Word.

Thanks for posting! It’s really nice to talk/discuss about my new favorite thing… lol

Hi Gabby,
The main thing is that the way keywords work in any app is that you assign them to documents (or photos or whatever); not the other way around, which is what you are asking for. Conceptually, it seems a little strange to have it so that meta-data that you apply to documents can also have documents assigned to it. I do have the idea, though - I’m thinking that there could be a ctrl-click menu that appears when you ctrl-click on a keyword that brings up all the documents with that keyword assigned. In conjunction with 2.0’s bookmarks feature, this would mean that if your character sheets folder is bookmarked (which it most likely will be), then the character sheet for that keyword would appear near the top. It depends on speed and other factors, though, so leave it with me.
All the best,
Keith

Thank you! That sounds pretty cool :smiley:

Scrivener can have two editor windows, separated vertically or horizontally as you like. (I generally prefer horizontally, myself.) When you open another document w/in the project, it either opens in the same editor that you have selected or in the one other that what you have selected. [Off-topic: is there something wrong with the italic BBCode?]

Have you looked in the keywords HUD yet? From there, you can pick a keyword and click “Search” to pull up all files with that keyword. Now, I tend to have extremely complicated character relationships and plots. (Seriously, for the novel I’m revising I had to make a genealogy to make sure I hadn’t accidentally made the MMC and FMC be related. And then there are the illegitimate cousins and the half-brother that the illegitimate FMC doesn’t know about.)

Now, in a novel I’m writing, I’m kinda alternating first person present with third person past. The FMC is the same for both, but her name’s changed in the interim. As things stand at the moment, I don’t have keywords set up in a way that lets me cleanly segregate when someone’s actually in a scene, which type of scene it is, and when someone’s only mentioned in passing in a scene. I suppose I could change the keyword name for mentions, but that would look ugly and then be tricky when I want to find everything with that character.

I think I’ll be trying to use keywords to track main details because my narrators also tend to be a bit… ignorant. They don’t know everything they think they do, so I could use keywords to keep track of when details are mentioned and when the narrator actually knows them, to make sure I don’t drop details that haven’t been revealed yet. (I recently realized my narrator’s thinking of one character as the vampire FBI director, but I can’t figure out how she figured that out.)

Sorry if this isn’t entirely coherent—I’m sleepy and trying to hurry. Does it help?

Carradee,

I get what you are saying about tracking details. Adding a couple of the keywords caused me to connect the dots on some things that had previously eluded me. To be honest, I am curious whether I would have thought of it without the keywords. It is fun to figure out what else I can track. And I have never been an outline/synopses person but Scrivener actually made it fun. (this continues to amaze me… it’s like homework suddenly became fun…).

I have checked out the HUD search (which sort of gave me the idea originally). I guess I was really trying to avoid those extra steps/clicks (sort of skip the search and take me directly to one earmarked doc) because, quite frankly, I am lazy :open_mouth: and don’t want to have to dig around for the correct document. Maybe it’s one of those things that appeals to one person but isn’t really useful for others. And I am way too new of a user to be trying to push for new features already like this (lesson hopefully learned). :blush: I will leave it with Keith like I promised…

I’m so glad to see these posts on keywords. Unfortunately, I’m in the middle of Nano so I’ll have to fool with it again after November. I’ve been unsuccessful at making keywords work though I recognize the tremendous potential. In my current project, I would love to track character appearances, clue related plot threads, so I don’t have to go back through the entire thing with Find. And creating a folder for characters and settings in the novel with keyword connections.

I’m missing something in the setup or application. There’s very little in the tutorial about setting it up. I’ve been using Scrivener for two years so I’m pretty familiar with it which is discouraging when I see Gabby is having so much success. You go girl!

Hellllp!. Is there a file you could post that we can view to see how it is successfully setup and utilized? Is there a post that explains setup that I’ve missed?

Sorry to be so dense but a couple of writing partners are having the same problem. I’d like to get keywords working so I could blog about its advantages.

Appreciate Soooo much this Scrivener program and the forum. it’s awesome.
Martie

I don’t remember appending the keywords to anything, maybe that’s why when I searched I didn’t get anything…?
Thanks, Martie

Gabby,
As I’m writing I’m thinking about how I would set the keywords up for this WIP. Here’s an example
Keywords BG is background (I’ve found I’ve written background in three different places for hero) APP is appearance of character

BG Georgeanne
BG Tempe family

ARC Jack’s awareness
ARC J and T relationship
ARC the THREAT

THREAD missing brother
THREAD clues to murder
THREAD paranormal

APP Marty
APP beast

If I can figure it out that’s how I’ll use it in revisions.
:confused:
Martie

Hi Martieh,

What you are describing sounds alot like how I am using them right now, although I definitely want to track more than what I currently am doing.

Here’s what I’m doing but it might be all review for you. (Sorry if I misunderstood, it looked like you were wondering how to get the Find function to work with the keywords?)

So in case I understood correctly, I’ve setup my Keyword HUD with folders: (the Keyword HUD is the black Keyword icon in Scrivener).
Character
Location
Magical Items
etc

In each folder, I setup character names, locations, etc.
So Character folder: Jane, John, Ingrid, etc.
Location: TownA, TownB, Train, Office, etc

Then in each scene, I drag a character to a scene (in the Keyword section of the inspector). So if in Scene 1, Jane and Ingrid are talking in the office, I add those 3 pieces to my scene.

Now if I go back into the Keyword HUD, select Ingrid or select office, I can then click Search and get a list of all scenes where the office location shows up or where Ingrid shows up, etc. Honestly I haven’t gotten around to tracking themes and the bigger picture things. But setting up a magic items folder was a lightbulb because I suddenly realized that one of my objects was also a magic object.

The keywords are a lot of fun. :slight_smile:

I hope that Nano is going well for you!

Thanks, Gabby. I plan on looking at all this tomorrow since Nano’s over for me and I’m off. I need to reassess because I lost track of who was doing what. Your sample gives me somewhere to start. Good luck using it more deeply. Be sure to post it if you’re successful. :laughing:
Martie