Keywords: How do you make a daughter a sibling? [CONFIRMED]

When I am grabbing a keyword from the HUD the keyword sometimes moved on top of another one and then becomes a daughter to that term. I don’t want it there. I try to move the daughter up and push it to the left but I can’t seem to find a way to get it out of its daughter position and into the top level of the HUD. How do I do this?

If you click and drag the child keyword down to where there aren’t any keywords or even just to the side of that same row it’s in, you should see the white selection border around the entire inside of the HUD. Just release it then and it will move to the top level and arrange itself alphabetically.

Or you could ask Evelyn Mulwray (as played by Faye Dunaway in “Chinatown”): “My daughter” slap “My sister” slap “My daughter” slap “My sister” slap “My daughter” slap “My sister” . . . .

(Sorry–I couldn’t resist.)

The solution you suggest doesn’t work. First, I have a lot of keywords and there is no empty space at the top or bottom. Second, if I move the keyword to the left I can’t get the white box around the whole HUD. I get white boxes around individual items if I move up or down.

PS Would it be possible to have a contextual menu item, called up with Control Key or Alternate Mouse Button, that would move the keyword up a level. This would also be useful for the binder.

Thanks for such an outstanding program.

My apologies. I evidently didn’t test this thoroughly. Dragging to the side only seems to work if that keyword is the last on the list. Whoops.

You should be able to grab the bottom right corner of the HUD and drag it down to expand the size so that you can get to some empty space. Then grabbing the keyword and dragging it to an empty line will select the whole box and when you release the mouse the keyword will go out to the first level.

There is a menu item and keyboard command to do what you want in the binder and outliner: ctrl-cmd-arrow up/down/left/right (Documents>Move). This doesn’t work for keywords though.

Moved to Bugs.

Definitely does look like a problem. I’ve always had a bigger HUD than list, so never came across it before. At the moment it looks like resizing the HUD to be larger than the list is the only workaround. To help with this, you could press Cmd-0 to collapse everything and reduce the vertical height of the list.

Another work-around if you have less screen height than keywords: create a top-level keyword and call it something generic like “Keywords”. Drag everything into it. You can easily do this by pressing Cmd-A and then Cmd-click on “Keywords”, before dragging. Now you can promote items by dragging them to the “Keywords” container at the top.


  1. In a new project open up the HUD and make it quite small so you can test with only a few keywords
  2. Add five or six
  3. Drag one of them into another
  4. If you have blank space add a few more
  5. Now try to get the nested keyword back to the top level without resizing the HUD

It’s not an issue with 30 or so keywords, but if you have hundreds, it would be impossible to get a child keyword out of a container.

I was able to get out of the container by moving the enclosed keywords to the last item in the HUD (where they again became enclosed by the keyword that had been last) and then moving them to the left where the whole HUD got selected and the keyword sorted alphabetically.

Incidentally the reason I have so many keywords is because this Scrivener actually makes a powerful data base manager. I’ve used Bento but want to get out of it because it has messed up both my contacts and I suspect my calendar (Note the very late essential update after the last Snow Leopard update).

To start moving away from Bento I created a project that had nothing but the papers I distribute when I get requests for a reprint. A separate document for each paper and then a link to it in the references pane. I then made a lot of keywords, including one for each title and others for subject matter, etc. in papers. This is what produced the large list.

Actually for a use like this it would be nice if you could really minimize the main document window (all you are really using is the binder and references pane). I made a project to hold all my Scrivener projects (Scrivener is more powerful than DragThing which I’ve used until now). It would be nice if could be small, just a long column, so that it could be open most of the time.

In general I think projects are going to have lots of keywords. It’s a powerful way of organizing materials in a project.

Oh, just to clarify, I meant no criticism of using many keywords. I think the design here is clearly at fault in that it only works if you have fewer keywords than can be displayed on your screen. That’s an unnecessary limitation. You should feel free to use as many keywords as you like.

So what’s your suggestion for a fix, Ioa? This is a known issue, but the way dragging works in Cocoa outline views is that to drop at the top level you have to drag into the blank area. I don’t really want to enable full Move Up/Down/Left/Right keyboard access for keywords as you have no idea how much code this involves. :slight_smile:

All the best,

Could you force it so the keywords started a line down, leaving the top space blank?

…That might make no sense, my brain’s tired and I am not a programmer except when I don my superhero cape… :confused:

This problem basically exists in the Finder as well, and they get around it by defining “blank area” as being anything that isn’t already occupied by text. To move a child item out of folder, into a view that currently is displaying nothing but folders, you can drag the item over to the extreme left or anywhere in the non-text occupied areas to the right. It’s only when hover over text itself that “drop-ons” activate.