Mac versus Windows

Scrivener Scrivener for Windows
21

If you are comfortable with Linux then Mac is an easy transition. It is basically a BSD core with proprietary junk added.

The big thing that I like about OSX/apple is that I get all the “power” of linux, but with commercial support that will help my wife with those questions that set marriages on the brink of disaster (“why can’t I open my email?” “Did you click the mail icon?” Why should I do that?" “To open email?” “But I don’t want to!”) while at the same time able to address the issues of the less casual user (“need to port from PD7 and am looking for …”).

As to the TCO, apple is not the cheapest IF you are willing to self support 100%. If you want to off load support then Mac is by far the cheapest solution out there IF you keep all MS apps off your system. Once you start putting MS products all bets are off as you office and its brethren stick you in the upgrade spiral no matter what OS you are running.

That said, I spend 90% of my day in windows for work. It is functional. But it is not easy. Nor is it efficient for my line of work (interfacing with LOTS of different systems most of which are unix variants). Even with that, I’m about to hang myself on a dell venue/ms surface style tablet. Real systems delivering the promise of true portable computing from the late 90s early 00s.

Linux just isn’t delivering in this format. Apple has a clear. different direction. They lose my $$ on this front.

22

But you have to take all those hidden costs into account: how much work you can get done because of efficiency; how much work you can get done because of reliability and available screen time; how much work you can get done because of usability. Time is money, and time lost to inefficiency, crashes, bugs, etc all impact on the TCO.

You also have to allow for replacement hardware. We’ve always replaced our computers when they started to feel sluggish. With clunky Windows updates, that was typically every two years. The MBP and iMac we bought in 2008 still run as fast today under Yosemite as they did on the day that they were taken out of their boxes. I thought we’d replace them in 2010/2011, but they just keep on going. Newer machines would be faster, of course, but the old ones have yet to feel as if they are slower than when we first bought them. They happily run the latest OS and the latest apps. Totally up-to-date machines in terms of software.

To be less anecdotal, between 2001 and 2007 inclusive (7 years), for the same computer needs, we spent more than three times as much on Dell hardware (plus Windows/Office licences, antivirus, etc, plus time lost to patches, bugs, crashes, etc) than we did between 2008 and 2014 inclusive (7 years) on Apple hardware (plus a few years of low-cost updates for OS X and iWork … free upgrades in recent years).

In terms of TCO, Windows machines were in excess of three times more expensive to own and run than Apple Macs. Three times. And that doesn’t even allow for inflation, which would in effect make the Macs even more cost efficient.

I appreciate that other people’s milage may vary. :stuck_out_tongue:

23

Just came to mind :laughing:
youtu.be/iEAGmBRC1dc

24

Briar(n), we agree. Really we do. BUT, if you are an IT guy by trade, you likely have tools to rapidly repair windows systems (backups to nas, prebuilt install scripts, etc) like my team and I have for our windows boxes. Pop the usb and dvd in, reboot on your way out the door, next morning your dog-tired windows box is happy again.

Is it a PITA? Yes. Does it bring a lower TCO for windows? Yes. Does the new lower TCO for windows beat osx? Don’t know.

If you don’t know how to do this stuff then the TCO difference is huge. If you do, the argument is less compelling.

That’s all.

Now, my opinion for the OP… If you are asking the question, buy the Mac. Not because it is “better” or “worse” or “cheaper” but because you already want it enough to be considering it seriously. I’ve never heard anyone complain about wasted time on patches or reboots with a apple hw. Just like I’ve never heard anyone complain about the shop time needed for a Ferrari or Jag. Sorry, but you’re already sold on it.

25

Avoid the religious wars. (I have Windows 7 and 8.1, Mac OS Yosemite, and even a spare Linux distro around.) Go straight for what applications and functionality you want, and let that determine the operating system you go for. Buy the best hardware you can afford to run that operating system on – and if it’s a Windows system, seriously check out a Microsoft store or other store that offers the “Microsoft Signature Edition” option on your computers; they contain just the essential hardware drivers you need without all of the other cruft that most OEMs throw on the box that causes the bloated, slowed-down experience many other posters in this thread experience.

But start with the apps and what you want to do with the system. The Mac version of Scrivener is more advanced at this time. While I adore Scriv for Windows, there are things it does that are counter-intuitive to a long-time Windows user and it took a bit of a learning curve. But what other apps are you going to use with it? What do they support? Answer those questions…and you’ll know the answer to yours.

26

If you’re talking the default Unix shell vs. cmd.exe, then yes of course.

If you’re talking PowerShell…not a chance. I’m a long-time UNIX/Windows sysadmin and have co-written one book on scripting for Exchange Server, and I’m telling you, I wish I had a full-featured PowerShell for non-Windows platforms.

27

[quote="Briar KitWindows regularly serves up software quirks. OS X invariably doesn’t.[/quote]
Quirks are in the eye of the beholder. I’ve used most environments out there in my personal and professional life, and I’ve yet to find a one that didn’t have some quirks. Software programs and operating systems, like books, are written by humans, and all are ultimately the product of a design process of trade-offs.

All hardware sucks; all software sucks. You find the flavor of suckage you can live with.

28

Proprietary junk? Steve Jobs just turned in his grave.

Chocolate thickshake with a big straw.

I think that covers the most important points…

29

Hi devinganger and Jaysen

Even if you’re an IT guru, you still need to factor in the time you have to spend maintaining whatever hardware and OS you’re running. In my experience, OS X is far more reliable, efficient, and cost effective than Windows machines. Without any doubt, switching to Apple has certainly saved my family thousands of pounds.

I must admit that I took the OP to be someone who wants to get on and write, rather than spend time maintaining his hardware and software. If that assumption is right, then I’d advocate getting a Mac. If that assumption is wrong, I’d still advocate getting a Mac. :smiley:

I don’t know anyone in person who has switched to Mac and then gone back to Windows. Every family I know that has started off with one Apple device as a tester has then gone on to switch everything over to Apple: simply because Apple products just work.

Back in 2008 when I switched from Windows, I was regularly having screaming fits at the frustration of having to deal with Windows and Office. I was pretty close to giving up using a computer entirely. Now, I love waking my Mac up and being able to get on with work.

I still help friends who have Windows machines with their problems (not that I know very much, but I know more than they do) and haven’t yet faced a problem that I couldn’t resolve. But I would never go back to using Windows. Even if MS made the greatest OS leap ever made, I wouldn’t use their products again because I realise now how much of my time I wasted fixing their poorly written software in the past. Time that I can’t get back. And time (having been rather ill in the last 18 months) is really very precious. I want to write. I don’t want to maintain my machine.

30

@Briar Kit
You seems a nice fellow. But don’t you have something better to do, than hammering how bad Wndows is and how good Mac is ? If it was so, Mac would be everywhere and Windows not, don’t you think ? I use PC under WIndows since 1980 (IBM PC XT, green screen, no hard drive…) and I also tried quite a lot of mac (from the original one, and Apple II before) and unix and linux too. For myself, I don’t like mac, but it is not a very good argument to answer the question that has been asked by John Dodds: should he spare some money to get a mac ?

I “understand” PC, and I know how to tweak them, program them, assemble them and I build them in the dark in less than 3 minutes (well, this last sentence is just a joke, isn’t it ? :blush: … It takes me 4 :wink: )
And still I would answer “Get a Mac ! Scrivener is very good, and there is still a very long way for the Windows version to catch the Mac version, if it happens one day.”

@John Dodds : IMHO, if your computer is mainly used for writing, get a Mac and use Scrivener 2.6. It is good, stable and pretty. It is a wonderfull, efficient writing help. You won’t find anything close on Windows.

(But if you plan to make anything else than writing (ie playing a real game :wink: ) you absolutely should reconsider… :mrgreen: )

@AmberV : you asked me to take it cool. But it NEVER STOPS. In every magazine, forum, BBS or real life discussion, for the 30+ last years, when a Mac user comes and tell “I don’t like Windows”, he will continue to hammer that again and again, as to make it enter the poor brains of all the poor Windows users. Let my brain alone ! :smiling_imp:

(I apologies for my very approximative english, as you can think it is not my main language).

31

You might be surprised how little time difference there is for the “gurus”. The reason it seems that OSX take less maint from a non-guru users is that OSX better manages junk than Windows. If you are a systems guy you spend the same amount of time on both. For example, How frequently do you review system logs for things that are “not right”? Unless you look for them you never see them in OSX. I look through mine regularly. Helps me spot HW issues before fatal failures.

Not the best example but the reality is that OSX isn’t really ‘less work’ for folks like me. For me if feels better. And the TCO is better because I use the same HW for 15y then turn it into a linux box for a few more.

And I’m sure OSX has save you a ton (or more)(that’s a bad quip on your currency). I hope you treated the other half to a nice meal with some of the savings.

32

Three writers walk into a bar carrying their respective notebooks: Mac, Windows and Linux.

The Mac writer asks for a full-featured writing cocktail: vodka martini shaken, not stirred. The bartender serves him a sparkling MacScriv glass.
“Gee, it’s delicious!”, replies the Mac writer. “Not only inspiring like a beautiful muse, but it makes me far more productive too!”

The Windows writer asks for the same drink. The bartender says: “No can do at this time, but I have a stirred-not-shaken flavour that will, eventually, taste almost the same some day”, and serves him WinScriv.
The Windows writer says: “Close, but no cigar. I see no muse, no scrivenings titles, no freeform corkboard but still… Well, this will have to be it, for now. I guess productivity will be paced by my own.”

The Linux writer says: “Just give me the recipe and ingredients for that MacScriv stuff and I’ll prepare it and shake it myself.”
“No can do,” says the bartender, “you know, it’s not an open bar. But perhaps you’d like a non-stirred-nor-shaken version that we serve for free.”
“No way!,” replies the Linux writer. “Just give me that WinScriv thingy and then pour me some Wine.”
:wink:

33

Then you’ve got the iOS user outside the place, banging on the window every five minutes but refusing to open the desktop door.

Android user says, “Hey, at least you can see the tavern! :cry:”.

34

I agree with Jaysen :smiley:

35

Spoken like a true artist. I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve often thought that perhaps the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was that as much as 80% - 90% of the personal computing population didn’t realize their error in not turning their backs on and smashing The Man when they had the chance, even after being warned of the disastrous consequences of their sheepoid docility. I weep, thinking of how much better today’s world would be, if only. No war, no hunger, no sexism, no racism, no illiteracy, no environmental degradation, no bowing down before overpowering and all-knowing corporatism, and no religion, too. All the promised efficiency – surrendered. All the increased productivity – stillborn. All the precious time saved – squandered. If only they had listened, and heeded, and thought different, then today – as I hunt and peck and scribble these words through fingerless gloves by the light of my flaming trash can – it would not merely be early 2015 Year Of Our Overlord, but 2020 at minimum, maybe 2025, perhaps even 2030, with cancer cured and the Moon and Mars fully colonized for tourism and other peaceful, creative purposes. Oh, if only everyone had come together for the common good. Alas, no. For they knew not what they do’d. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to sharpen my #2’s, uncrate my drone-delivered palette of yellow legal dead tree matter (purchased at a deep, paradigm-destroying discount), and have a good vomit before getting down to work.