[macOS 26 Beta] Dropbox needs to be dropped

Well we do try! I point it out every time it comes up, but it’s like trying to convince people that the “we only use 10% of our brains” thing isn’t true. No matter how many times you say it, even if you convince one or two, you’ll never keep up with the ceaseless tide of popular culture saying otherwise.

Funnily enough, Dropbox’s reputation for being one of the best sync engines was from the days when they did need to modify the system to better monitor the file system in real time. It’s part of what made it so good (that it needed root access to set itself up). Those days are long gone though, as noted, and any performance or technical advantages to it will be in how the code itself handles the Apple infrastructure for syncing.

I do agree that overall iCloud Drive is much better than it used to be, but I think it’s still below the par for what I’d want. For one thing it doesn’t work on Linux, which is an immediately disqualification for me, but I understand most Mac users don’t care about that. I guess more broadly relevant is how you can’t tell when it is syncing unless you’re looking at the very files themselves in Finder, and how it handles conflicts (total A/B package duplication instead of only duplicating the parts that conflicted and letting Scrivener help you resolve them). Plus, it uses the monolithic sync folder approach which I’m not a fan of. I also don’t care for how it defaults to “smart sync”, which cause a lot of grief (Dropbox is just as guilty, if not more so).

One of the things I like about Tresorit is that I can choose to sync whatever I want, wherever it is. That means I can sync preference folders, or other things that need to be in very specific places, without fragile symbolic links. To me that is very important. I can edit a text expansion on my Linux machine and it appears on my Mac a few seconds later—each has its own sync setup pointing to where the configuration files are, on that system. I can choose to sync work stuff from work accounts, separate from personal stuff, without a convoluted selective sync setup that requires constant maintenance.

SyncThing is another one to look into. It’s open source, so there are less concerns about what it is doing on your system, and I’ve even seen a setup that allows for real syncing with iOS. I’ve never tried that to be clear, and cannot vouch for it, but it looks legit.

Thank you for taking the time to engage with me.

Of course! :slight_smile:

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One last question: I can’t figure out how to sync Scrivener iOS with Jottacloud. I understand I need to do something in the Scrivener project on the iPad, but for the life of me it’s unclear. Searching online has only led to confusion…

(…and to more than a few recent posting with the warnings to only use Dropbox. Eliminating or modifying those posts might help spread the word. Had you and I not had a conversation, no amount of searching online would have led me to believe that anything other than Dropbox was acceptable.)

Someone also needs to get the word out to the Google AI:

This is the most comprehensive post on alternative methods for iOS. It’s the method I use myself, and it is very safe and simple to use once you get the basics worked out.

As for the Gemini result (and beyond), it’s important to separate the concepts of syncing in Scrivener on iOS with pretty much everything else. The prompt you gave it focussed on iOS for Scrivener, so it is giving you a pretty factual response within that narrow constraint (there are a few quibbles I would have with it, but that’s LLMs for you).

What it is saying is not in any way applicable to syncing Scrivener projects on Linux, Windows, a Mac, or with most any sync service. Nor is it talking about using sync on your iOS device to keep Scrivener up to date with Files.app.

You can perhaps see why there is a tendency toward confusion. If for how you work, iOS is very important, then this narrow constraint might become the only thing that matters to you, and thus become how you might think of, and phrase such things as “the only supported service”. If you must live sync, and you must use iOS, then you have no choice but to use Dropbox.

If you can flex just a bit though, on any of those parameters, then your options expand greatly (for example on Linux I don’t need to sync, as I can mount the iPad directly to the system, right into my user folder, and edit projects right off of it with the same speed and stability that I would get from an external drive).

My hope is that at some point iOS won’t be so weird, and will let sync services sync whatever files they want, and bring the concept of file sync finally to it, in the way Dropbox did back in 2007 or whenever. Then this whole mess of having to “support” things on the app side will be a bad point in history, like WinCE modules and PalmPilot sync plugins. This is how file and folder syncing changed the world, it’s just taken Apple nearly twenty years to catch up on iOS. The SyncThing workflow does indicate that point might be sooner than later.

But that’s not syncing right? So iOS can’t sync in any way other than Dropbox? Syncing = live syncing. Otherwise we’re just talking about copying files.

See, if you adopt that constraint, then you’re stuck. :slight_smile:

It is syncing, just not inside Scrivener for iOS. The stuff still syncs to and from your devices. You just need to push the updates from the sync folder into Scrivener’s and back, on iOS. Give it a try, it’s really not that hard! Like I say that’s all I’ve ever used. The only time I’ve ever used Dropbox is to test it, and then I promptly turned it back off.

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I’l try. The link you sent is to a VERY long explanation. I’m not sure anything that complicated qualifies as syncing, but I’ll reserve judgement. To me when you say sync, it means I write it here and it shows up there. Like SimpleNote. Everything else is copying. But I’ll try.

I really think the official word is that iOS doesn’t sync except through Dropbox, which to my mind is now suspect at best, meaning that iOS Scrivener does not in fact sync.

I am seeing NONE of what you are seeing with the Tahoe/Dropbox/Scrivener interactions, and I have a very secure setup.

As for the claim that Dropbox is acting like Malware, No! I’ll leave it at that.

Someone needs to get the word out to people to NOT believe most of what pops up on the Google AI Overview. It gives equal credence to false information as to true when it’s out there scraping. I’m stunned at how many people get sucked into comparing that to a search engine results.

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It syncs.

When I say sync it means it takes what you have written and syncs the changes, and only the changes with the versions stored on the cloud and other device local drives, so that all versions are ‘in sync’.

The ‘VERY long explanation’ is reasonably simple to impliment.

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Have you consulted Dropbox support? We have no more information than you do about what they might or might not be doing.

(FWIW, Dropbox has never asked for my admin password.)

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I didn’t get sucked into anything. The AI was just echoing everything else I read, including on this very forum.

Are you saying that at no point did Dropbox ask you for your password? If you turn off permissions in the Dropbox settings does it not still continue ask you to upload screenshots and files when then download? It’s hard for me to believe that you and I both have (had) updated versions of an app called Dropbox on the same OS version and that they are two different apps which just happen to share the same name. One of us is missing something.

Are you using MacOS?

Performance. We’ve tried it, and it turns out to be an enormous performance hit for even relatively small projects.

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Yes, but not the latest beta.

I just checked my Dropbox preferences and there are a whole bunch of things it can do that my installation is not configured to do, including uploading screenshots and photos and the like. Those features do exist but, as I said, on my system they are not enabled and are completely ignorable.

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It was certainly trying to do those things on the beta, but just died instead. It was doing it on the version I was using prior to installing the beta. But maybe you are on a version that somehow prevents this? I don’t know. I only know that Dropbox was consistently acting suspicious over quite some time. As I said in an early post, I’ve been using Dropbox since its inception. I really liked it back in the day. If they had just stuck with being a literal drop-box, then I would have been happy to stick around. They’re getting too handsy though, so I deleted them. I’ll just stick with airdroping projects back and forth and live with that.

For everything else there are a million services which can take their place.

The AI may well be echoing everything else you read, but it still doesn’t guarantee it’s right. The L&L staff have indicated that some comments you may have read on this forum might well be incorrect.

The only guaranteed ‘correct’ ones are those posted by L&L staff. It does appear that the advice has changed somewhat from the very first iOS release with changes to cloud services other than Dropbox. (I THINK Google Drive is still a potential mess)

I have my system set up with a high level of security and I am experiencing none of the issues you complain of in your initial post. As pointed out by L&L staff what you said was an issue with Scrivener is not, and IMHO your claims about Dropbox do not stand up.

FWIW I have successfully used other cloud services (NOT Google or OneDrive) with care.

The version of 26 I am on is not called the developer version and it’s not a public version, though I would expect it to be the same as the developer (certainly wouldn’t be behind the developer version.)

The Dropbox version was downloaded again today to confirm the same outcomes

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Explain this: I just tried installing Dropbox right now and this popped up.

The OS is for testing the OS and developing against it, not testing software (at least not until you get beta builds from developers specifically stating it should be tested against it). We don’t recommend using Scrivener on it. 3.4 will probably never be tested for it. The compatibility update coming out later this year will be what is tested for it, and I’m sure it’s going to be the same for Dropbox and just about everyone else. If the screenshot toggle in Dropbox doesn’t work right now, it is likely the beta broke it.

Report Apple bugs though, that’s the point of it.

You mean like this? :wink:

Seriously though, to clarify, the knowledge base article that is linked to at the top of that thread is the actual method, and that is described in a single paragraph. The rest of the article is tips and tricks on optimising the idea, and the thread itself I linked you to is entirely commentary and discussion, with some tweaks to better suit iOS’ unique limitations.

Syncing = live syncing.

That is not how the word is typically defined. In fact, funnily enough, your SimpleNote example fails that definition! I don’t know why you used that example to start with since it is way more like this forum here than file and folder syncing. The only time it really syncs is when you’ve been offline and can once again contact the server.

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I have not got a clue what your setup is, but I get neither of those.

They are asking for permission to run Dropbox and to allow the service to run in the background. It is not unusual for a background service to need initial permission to run in the background to perform tasks such as syncing.

What happens if you enter the username and password (it would need to be one with sufficient privileges) and to allow the background task?

Is Dropbox shown as running on the menu bar?

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Everything I said applies to the OS before I installed the beta. Dropbox crashes on the beta. But, by the by, Scrivener runs beautifull in 26.

This discussion is all academic for me at this point. I’ve eliminated Dropbox and won’t be returning. And I’m not going to jump through a bunch of hoops to try to get another service to sync. I can live with just airdropping on the occassions that I need the different versions of Scrivener to communicate.

This is the very thing I’m not going to do. Where is the handoff to the OS to gain privelege? Where is the use of the fingerprint or Face-ID? Where are the passcode options? How about MacOS pops up a code like they do to all my devices. Anything but enter my computer password into a plaintext box, which anyone could mock up and phish the password. This is not in any way secure and there’s no way I’m entering my password to find out what happens.