NeO is on sale

NeO’s current price is already very low at $10, and until the end of February it is $4.99 at the App Store.

"NeO, the successor to TAO, is now released at Mac App Store. For TAO and beta version of NeO users who use them on MacOS X 10.6.6 or greater, NeO is sold in a discounted price until the end of February, 2011. We would be happy if you purchase NeO within this period. "

I don’t use the App Store or Snow Leopard, but NeO is quite good.

I discussed this outliner with the Japanese developer before it was even called Tao. If you’re looking for a very powerful outliner, you might want to look into it. It has the sorts of features ‘pro’ outliners love.

I’ve not used it for a while, since I now use Scrivener for my outlining, but I do remember that at one time when I compared it to OmniOutliner, Tao/NeO seemed better for text outlining and OmniOutliner for checklists, finances and that sort of thing.

Note too that there’s an App Store version. The developer updates often, so you might want to get it there and let Apple worry about the updating.

According to the App Store description NeO includes cloning! Wow, haven’t seen that much since the old days of the classic, much-missed MORE outliner.

Cloning just means that an entry can appear in more than one place in the outline. You can do it in Tinderbox as well but I don’t think you can in OmniOutliner or Inspiration. This is useful if you want to have both a chronological/linear list of scenes in your outline, but also (let’s say) a grouping of all scenes related to a subplot. You can edit your scene in one part of the outline and it will be reflected in the clones elsewhere in the outline.

I haven’t tried NeO but I might give it a shot just to play with it. Has anyone imported an outline from NeO into Scrivener?

I’ve imported an outline into Scrivener from TAO, which was NeO’s close predecessor. It was a while ago now, but as far as I can remember it exported in OPML, which I was then able to put through OmniOutliner and from there into Scrivener. Since then Scrivener has added OPML import*, so you’ll be able to go direct.

As you say, NeO includes cloning, and various other features that OO currently lacks. (Omni’s decision to delay its next major upgrade of OO in order to focus on its iPad applications was a source of frustration to some users.) The price that TAO and NeO pay for the extra functionality is some extra complexity.

  • Performed by dropping the exported OPML file on Scrivener’s Binder.

I agree with InklingBooks about OmniOutliner being better for some things.
I asked NeO’s developer to include functions for operations with numbers, and to put a check mark on a parent item once all child items were checked. Hopefully these features (and more) will be available soon. (I have not used the latest copy yet, and don’t know if they’re already present.)
One disadvantage NeO has is its learning curve. OOP is much easier to use. Having said that, I haven’t used OOP since I bought NeO a few months ago.

I know I am slower than a box of dumb rocks (as opposed to being slower than a box of smart rocks as that would not be a fair comparison to the disadvantaged headless person), but is this last line seems to run counter to the intended message of the post. What am i missing?

No rocks of any IQ were harmed in the production of this message. [size=60]There are a few dead horses that appear to have new contusions though…[/size]

I’m not sure what you mean, but since English is not my native language I’ll rephrase :slight_smile:

OmniOutliner Pro (OOP) is indeed better than at some things. This may no longer be true if/when NeO is updated with new features. I know that some of my suggestions were going to be incorporated, and I’m sure others have also sent feedback to NeO’s developer.

OOP is also easier to use than NeO.

In spite of OOP having some extra features and being easier to use, I have not used it since I bought NeO. Why?

  • NeO is more powerful, so I’m investing time in order to learn how to use it, and I have been able to do with NeO everything I would do in OOP.
  • NeO is evolving. I can’t say the same about OOP.
  • I like learning new software. (Bad habit, but good for the brain and after a traumatic brain injury in 1996, it helps to keep on learning new things :slight_smile: )
  • OOP doesn’t use clones, and back when I bought NeO I was trying to do some stuff with clones.

After trying it I really liked it. For example, it also handles dates in text format, like “Next Tuesday” or “Tomorrow” which was something I liked with OOP. Formatting is easily done via Styles. It has Zoom (Full Screen) and a Split Editor.

Some old information can be found here:

I did try Tao (and FO Outliner) years ago, but back then I did not enjoy it and IIRC it was a bit expensive. To me NeO at $10 is rock-solid and a no-brainer (bad puns intended) :slight_smile:

You had me worried that you missed the humorous nature of my original reply.

For the record, your english is better than mine. And I only speak english and C/C++/perl/sed/awk/shell.

Sorry to get personal, but which do you use when you whisper sweet nothings?

Irrespective of Jaysen’s sweet nothings, the NeO site appears to be dead.

Chocolate. Eliminates the need for verbal communication.


Not if you follow

Cheers, Prion!

Those who didn’t find NeO at the App Store can find this explanation at the developer’s website:

The post was undated, so there’s no way to guess how soon it’s likely to appear.

Those who like to play with it can download a trial version that’s limited to twenty items here:

That same download page has the manual and an ACTA to NeO converter.

–Mike Perry, Seattle

It’s worth mentioning that prices have increased, at least if you buy via their website. Still a bargain IMHO.

NeO is available again on the App Store as version 1.0.8 for $14.99. This update fixes a problem displaying outlines.

There are currently ratings but no reviews, so those who’re using it might want to give it a helpful review.

I’ve had a brief look at it, but I’m struggling to see how I could incorporate it into my workflow. What does it offer me that Scrivener does not? Is it only useful for pre-Scrivener use (i.e. outline, then import into Scrivener to write)? How do you use it with Scrivener?

I’m currently experimenting with mind map software, and am not sure if I see any advantage of Neo (other than price) over the various mind map apps. Thoughts?

nom, yes I think the idea would be that you’d use an outliner such as NeO as a precursor, and export its output via OPML to Scrivener. And I suspect that the value of NeO or similar outliners such as OmniOutliner would rise to you (by comparison say with mind maps) in proportion to the extent that your imagination is better articulated with an outline rather than a map. (I was going to write “verbal rather than visual”, as people often do, but those terms don’t really capture the rival attributes of one or the other.)

I used NeO’s close predecessor, TAO, to outline a complicated project a couple of years ago. It contained pretty much all the features one could wish for in an outliner and then some, certainly more than OmniOutliner, but it was relatively complex. NeO’s interface may be slightly simpler without the loss of key functionality – but I haven’t really used it.

However, I do think much of the benefit of these outliners has now been superseded by outlining developments in Scrivener 2.0 – custom meta-data and free-form corkboards, for example.

Hugh’s right. Despite its reasonable price, NeO is a high-end professional outliner, able to do almost anything you might want to do. If Scrivener or a mind-map application provides all the organizational tools you need to lay out a book, you don’t need it.

Think of NeO as the outlining equivalent of Adobe Photoshop. It’s powerful, but if you don’t need that power, you’ll just spend time learning it that you could devote to writing. I outline, but when I set down to write, I find that, confronted with actual words, I’m changing so much, that it makes little sense to get too detailed in my outline.

Other people are different. They like to lay out their project in fine detail before they begin to write and need every bell and whistle NeO provides. This earlier post about NeO illustrates that:

If you’d like to be able to do that sort of thing, neither Scrivener nor OmniOutliner will do it. You’ll need NeO.

Thanks to you both.

Although often create extensive outlines, I have found Scrivener, mind map applications*, or even just pen and paper, to be sufficient for my needs. If I can’t see the use of NeO, then it is probably beyond my needs.

[size=85]*Except, since you mention it, Inspiration. While it used to be “OK” (in itself, not a ringing endorsement) it is now almost unusable when compared to other, more modern, mind map applications. I’m now leaning towards NovaMind.[/size]