None of this makes sense. At all.

I posted in another thread, but perhaps my dilemma would be better answered with its own thread. Simply put: none of this is making sense. I had a long sarcastic post that I just deleted, but bottom line: there’s no tutorial that assumes the user has no experience with MMD or LaTeX whatsoever. It all assumes a particular degree of proficiency that, quite frankly, someone just learning to use it is probably not going to have the tie to build. Just because you explain something in minute detail, it doesn’t mean you’ve taught anything. Is there not a “MMD in 3 easy steps” somewhere that kind of holds your hand and walks you through the basic steps? Take Scrivener’s tutorial for example: it actually has you “try this” to see how things work. I can’t find anything similar for MMD. I literally might as well be reading Greek for as much as I’ve learned reading about BibTex and LaTex and Markdown and Multimarkdown and XSTL and syntax and…

So basically, I’m at the point where I either forget Scrivener forever and stay with Word and Write-N-Cite (RefWorks applet) or I take the time to learn Scrivener, MMD and bibTex and hope it pays off. Given that I spent 30 minutes reading the MMD site and nothing tied back to Scrivener in more than a theoretical manner, it doesn’t appear like it’s going to be worth my time. Surely some teacher somewhere has written a “how to” that leads the initiate through the process?

And it’s also possible I don’t NEED MMD. Maybe I’m trying to start in “Scrivener References 204” without having taken “101”. I know I can manually enter my own references, but is the next step MMD or is that 2-3 steps removed?

I’m sure there is some information somewhere on Fletcher’s site about using MMD with Scrivener, though I can’t say where offhand - hopefully Fletcher will be able to assist there. I should point out, though, that MMD and Scrivener are two entirely separate entities. If you use MMD syntax in Scrivener, you can create LaTeX files because Scrivener has an MMD exporter (and an importer, for that matter), but yes, that assumes you have knowledge of MMD. Myself (I’m the developer of Scrivener), I don’t use MMD and have never used it. I implemented the importers and exporters because there was demand for it from MMD users who liked Scrivener and wanted to use MMD in it.

Hopefully Fletcher or one of the other MMD users will be able to point you in the direction. There are also the MMD lists, which are linked to in the sticky at the top of this forum.

All the best,

that goes a long way to answering my question. Maybe my mistake is in thinking I need MMD. I like the idea of being able to add pre-formatted citations but I guess I assumed that was MMD only. Maybe I’ll make a post in the scenarios forum and see what alternatives there are to MMD that aren’t “manual entry”

As for using citations in Scrivener, there have been discussions on the forum about how various people use their favorite bibliography software or whatever in conjunction with Scriv. Searching the forums should turn something up on this that might be helpful.

I myself use Endnote and am not familiar with the applet which you have been using, I guess in conjunction with Word.

You can certainly insert formatted bibliographic citations in your Scriv documents, but I know for Endnote, the best way to do it is to insert what they call “temporary citations”–then when you compile your draft for export to Word (or whatever), you can let Endnote do its thing on the result and pick the citation formatting you want at output time. Temporary citations are a whole lot better suited to a “writing environment”, I find. If your biblio application can post-processes citations to format them, then this is best left for the formatting/typesetting stage of your process.


OK, that’s exactly what I’m talking about… “Write-N-Cite” (the plugin for RefWorks) allows you to insert what I consider to be temporary citations. I haven’t gone farther since it’s not currently compatible with Word 2008, but I assume it does exactly what you said. I guess I’m lacking on the “how” and assumed that was MMD. Could you elaborate a bit more on “you can let Endnote do its thing on the result and pick the citation formatting you want at output time.” what do you actually do? Does it just scan the Word doc and do a type of “find and replace”?

Basically, that’s right. You put temporary citations (drawn from your Endnote database) in your document. When you are ready to format your final product, you tell Endnote to scan the document and replace the temp citations with formatted ones (and specifying what style of citation you are cleaving to).

If you are writing in Scrivener, the basic process is not much different than it would be if you were doing everything in Word, except that the Endnote scan part at the end has to happen outside of Scrivener–Endnote knows how to process .rtf and Word .doc documents, so you just do the final compile of your Scrivener project to issue in a file with one of these formats and run Endnote on the result.

Temporary citations look something like this: {Blount, 2008 #2635}.

How do they get into your document in the first place? You select a reference (or references) in Endnote, Copy, and then Paste into your document–Endnote pastes a temporary citation by default. (The number in the temp citation is, of course, a database record number Endnote uses to relocate the citation information at scan time.)

At risk of being wordy, here is a post on this subject from another thread in the forums:

Hope this is useful.


Very much so. That is precisely what I’ve been looking for. it’s rather straightforward and, while perhaps not as powerful as MMD, the time spent on the front end to learn it is negligible allowing me to focus on the writing. Thanks for the help! I look forward to the opportunity to use it (now I have only to wait for RefWorks to release the beta for Word 2008 so I can give it a spin :smiley: ).