Not so much a bug as weird behaviour

Keith – not something for you to worry about, more something to add to the list of headscratching weirdness that OS X occasionally throws up.

Since I upgraded to Lion, I sometimes get dialogues in other languages – not something that worries me too much as long as it’s a language I know something about. But I just realised that in Scrivener some of the font information was in Italian (my second language, so easy for me to understand).

For example, if I bring up the font chooser panel, instead of Arial bold, I get Arial grassetto (“fattish” – I like that) yet if I open FontBook, everything is in English. It’s all in English in the Scrivener Formatting Ruler, too, but not in Preferences > Formatting, which is also in Italian. It dawned on me that Italian is also listed as my second language in the list in System Preferences, so I tried changing the order so French came second as an experiment. Sure enough, in Scrivener Preferences > Formatting, the font choices now appear in French (Arial gras – makes a change from Mardi gras). But, in the Fonts chooser panel among the Favourites, and the Recently Used, the names still appear in Italian, though the fonts I haven’t used appear in French. FontBook is still in English.

I haven’t tried changing it to Russian yet, but that will be next. Though I’m not going to leave it – I don’t know any Russian – apart from “I love you”, which is no good at all as I don’t know any Russian women. I’m just curious to see what happens – in the font panel, that is – I have no hopes of anything happening with Russian women.

It did occur to me to wonder if this might be at all related to the spell checking problems that some people have been having, but I leave that to the techies.

On a separate note, I noticed that the tool tip on the button for exiting Compose mode still says “Exit full screen mode” – I guess you might want to change that some time.

All the best,

PS – and yes, I can now confirm that I can get font characteristics in Cyrillic! (By moving Russian to second in the list of languages in System Preferences.)


Not intended as an off-topic, but …

I too have had odd weirdnesses on my MacBook Air running Clarence 10.7.2 — nothing to do with Scrivener I hasten to add — to the point where I’m thinking of doing a total re-install. Then today, this nearly brand-new, super 17" MacBook Pro suddenly decided that it didn’t want to open the hidden dock, so I had to restart. Other languages coming up in odd places is not one of the weirdnesses, though, even though my second language is Simplified Chinese and third is French.

So question: have you upgraded to Clarence .3 which came out recently? I have downloaded the installer, but haven’t run it yet … doing a massive juggling of files on external drives so I can back up this MBP before I do that, and the MBA is currently backing up as I type. But there was a post on the Nisus forum where the poster had read of people having had trouble following upgrades to 10.7.3, but no details, so I want to have everything backed up fully before trying. My theoretical 1 mB/sec network often runs at under 1 kB/sec, so I’m hesitant about doing the full re-format and re-install before I get to the UK in a few weeks time.


Hi Mark,

The linguistic weirdness goes right back to my original installation of Lion. This is an MBA 13" which was bought in April, and obviously came with Snow Leopard. Since it was not an old machine (and I was totally exhausted after meeting an important deadline), I didn’t bother to do a clean install of Lion when it came out. However, it seems like a clean install would be a good idea, after next month, when I will have met another deadline and will have a bit of mental space. Anyway, I noticed the occasional “foreign” dialogues pretty much straight away. It took me a bit longer to notice the odd font information, but that is probably because I wasn’t looking. I just happened to mention it now because it finally got to me – you know, the old “what the bloody hell is that about?” idea that floats into an otherwise vacant cranium. I updated to Clarence 10.7.3 as soon as it hit the airwaves – I haven’t noticed anything special about it since I updated. I’ve just tried removing all the alternative languages from the list in System Preferences, and that (not surprisingly) returned my fonts to English. But to see what might be lurking in wait, I sneakily restored Italian to the list as second language, and hey presto! (an English expression, despite the Italian word embedded in it) – my font characteristics are back to Italian (in Scrivener Preferences > Formatting and in the Fonts chooser panel).

I’m still waiting for a suitable Russian woman …

Cheers, Martin.

I’ll forward to you the next spam mail I get from a supposedly nubile Russian woman! :laughing:

Thanks for the info on Clarence .3. I’ll do the update as soon as the backing-up is done, starting with my MBA. Incidentally, I have always suspected that the weirdness really started when I was lured into using MacCleaner, or whatever it’s called, on it to keep the system tickety-boo … suddenly, odd dylibs — I think they were — started crashing! I had problems with .zip downloads … the system tried to open them before the download was complete, causing lock-up, and Synchronize! Pro X, which had run happily for literally years — since early OS-X days — started throwing errors. So I’ve given MacCleaner the heave-ho, but haven’t done the clean install yet. Still get odd weirdnesses, but not those, though.


I did say suitable:wink:

Mackeeper is a name that seems to keep cropping up as causing more problems than it solves – and all sorts of dubious sales techniques used with it, too. Perhaps that is the one you mean.

I’ll keep waiting!


I’ll let you know if I hear of any suitable ones for you then. :smiley:

Yes, that’s the one … MacKeeper … I sent them a report of the problems that were occurring, and got a reply which demanded all sorts of information that I deemed inappropriate, so I didn’t bother to reply, and just cleaned the whole thing off my disk. They’re still pushing madly on CNET and other places, though.


So the old unix guy here.

If you need a “cleaner” then you are doing something wrong. We are talking about a slightly modified BSD derivative. No registry or extremely hidden magic files. the only time one could possible justify any “clean up tool” would be if you install something like Parallels or Fusion that slap all kinds of stupid kernel extensions and system level library files all over your system. If you ever find yourself needed to run an “installer” for an app, contact the supplier and ask them to provide an install manifest so you can manually clean/verify that their uninstall process works.

I’ve looked as some of the cleaner products and I really have difficulty justifying their existence. I think they are just there for the converts who feel that they MUST run something on a regular basis to check their system.

Just sayin’ …

Hi Martin,

I’ve changed the tooltip in the compose mode control bar - thanks!

Regarding your language issues, I’m fairly confident that this has to be an OS X issue, since languages are all handled at the OS-level. Scrivener isn’t even localised yet, so it does nothing with languages at all. And even when a program is localised, all it does is provided different interface files in special folders for each different language, and the OS is responsible for choosing which one to use. So it sounds as though, in your case, the OS is getting mixed up on which interface language to choose in different areas - although, all of the interface elements that are getting mixed up are Apple interface elements, seeing as Scrivener’s interface elements are only available in English at this time (something we hope to rectify soon).

Are you seeing this in other programs too?

All the best,

Hi Keith,

Yes, I’d always thought it was likely to be a system bug, but thought it might be worth knowing about, in case someone else has seen it. I hadn’t seen it in other programs (I don’t habitually use many) but I’ve just experimented with a few, and it occurs in the text panel in Pixelmator, but not NWP or Mellel (as far as I can see). I would surmise that it affects programs that get their font characteristics information from the same source as the system Fonts chooser panel. As I say, it’s an odd one, but not really bothersome. It gives me a faint flavour of Italy, and reminds me that I once lived there …

All the best,
Martin (not Matthew)
(I hope I haven’t started something there …)