Old Fonts v. New

This is likely NOT a Scrivener issue—but I am confused by what is happening.

Sometime in the distant past (like October of 2016) I discovered the Marion font. It’s a nice display font and I used it for the title page of the first volume in my book series. At the time, I didn’t look in Font Book to see if it was there or not, but I was using some older version of Mac OS (Mavericks? I forget…)

Fast forward to now: Mac OS Sierra (I’m always a version behind!) does not include Marion—at least, I can’t find it in Font Book. But when I look in Scrivener 3 to set up my section layouts, Marion is still an option in the font menus.

Now, I am using the same project as last year (converted to Scrivener 3 from Scrivener 2.) Is Marion embedded in my project somehow? (it seems unlikely, but…) Or is the name just a holdover, and if I change all instances of Marion to something else, will the font menu selection for Marion go away?

It’s hardly an urgent question :slight_smile: I have weeks before I need the compile formats ready to go, and I’ve found an open source font with a free commercial licence that is close enough to Marion to substitute. But I am confused as to why my system thinks it’s gone, and Scrivener thinks it’s still here.

I ran a system-wide scan for any files starting with “marion”:

find / -iname "marion*"

I found quite a few hits, mostly in XCode (iOS simulator stuff) and embedded into a few Apple programs, but one in /Library/Fonts/Marion.ttc. As with you, this font doesn’t show up in FontBook. It doesn’t even show up if I make a copy of the file into ~/Library/Fonts or deliberately open it with FontBook (normally installs a font), but tantalisingly, I can Quick Look it.

My guess is that Apple blacklists it system-wide, like they do the system San Francisco fonts. Somehow you got it assigned in the past, and maybe if documents are using it then it shows up in menus. There are tools you can use to convert .ttc and .dfont files to normal font files, and once you do that and install those (ignoring duplicate font errors), then you’ll see it. Don’t ask me about the grey legality of doing so however. :smiley:

Fascinating. But why force the issue? I can buy it for a modest price online, but it sounds like getting Font Book to swallow it would be a pain.

I think I’ll just replace it with my open-source font that’s so close you have to look at a glyph table to tell the difference. (the g’s are different. there are other minor differences.) If someone (besides me) is comparing title pages with a magnifying glass, well, I’ll take the flak. :smiley:

Marion is one of 5 fonts which Apple distribute but do not appear in most font selection dialogs, the cause of a long-standing ATS.framework bug according to the utterly amazing macOS font management page run by Kurt Lang here:


There is a way to fix this, though I think it doesn’t work in High Sierra anymore. I have a renamed version of Athelas that does still work in High Sierra (also distributed with macOS but buggy) that works, and I’m sure the same thing could be done for Marion…

Regarding “legality”, Apple officially distribute these fonts (Athelas, Marion, superClarendon, Seravek) with macOS and list them:


So it is as legal to use them as any other font that comes with the mac…

If you buy it, it’ll probably be in .ttf or .otf format—and given my test above, it looks like that will make it a selectable font in FontBook, TextEdit, Scrivener &c. If Apple is blacklisting it, they seem to only be doing so to the .ttc file.

Never underestimate those typophiles with magnifying glasses though! :laughing:

My working Athelas is still a TTC, renamed AthelasNG.ttc and placed in ~/Library/Fonts rather than /Library/Fonts

I should be so lucky as to have so many buyers of my print version that an obsessive typophile is among them. :smiley: