On Line Version??

Another problem with the “standard library” approach is that we have assumed that standard libs aren’t in use. We do know the the win/lin version is using a cross platform set of libs. Are the “more standard” libs that allow the win team to make a lin version that is MORE portable than already exists and is more cross architecturally supportable.

You know, java doesn’t do this all that well for complex apps so I’m pretty sure that a compiled executable will be even harder to support. And to clarify “complex”: we are talking internal/io management, not “lots of CPU”. Most games are not complex in the same way scriv is complex. as odd as that sounds think about these points.

  1. games have simple “file structures” in user space
  2. content in games is known and managed/optimized in advance of lading
  3. UI elements are not “variable” or “user defined” at nearly the same scope (color vs number of editor panels).
  4. the user interaction with games is tightly controlled. Scriv is free form.

I think if, as KB and such have hinted a number of times, there was a large team of developers, not just 3 (4 if you count iOS), and that we were already at parity between the OXS/Win(lin) versions, AND iOS was done done, then maybe there would be consideration of more support.

It is very easy to miss “huge picture” issues from our (customer) side of things. Right now the effort of supporting more than desktop OS is just out of the L&L plan (KB stated that earlier). I’m sure they have it on the “someday” list somewhere though.

It is a well-known management fallacy that managers will assume that anything they don’t personally know how to do must be easy.

I would invite anyone who thinks putting together an online version of Scrivener would be easy to try it. All you have to do is throw together some components from standard libraries, right? And there’s even a long weekend coming up! What’s holding you back?

Katherine

First off, I have not read all of this thread. So I apologize for that. I will probably make some points that others have made, points that have no doubt been argued to death and already defeated.

That being said, I shall insert my two cents.

There are already on-line apps for writing. I just spent a few minutes searching and have found two potentials already. One of them is very appealing, and it has tiered pricing. Basically, you have to pay for private projects as opposed to public projects, which are free.

There are different ways to go about pricing. But, subscriptions for on-line services are becoming the norm. Heck, Spotify subscriptions are $10 a month! People are paying it.

Okay, but will writers (may of them of the starving variety) subscribe to a pay service to write? Well, I am considering it, yeah. I’m not starving, but I’m not rich. I have some extra funds to put to a good use.

My favorite, and most useful app, is Todoist. It is a task manager app that is available on just about every platform, including on-line. Data is synced across the apps flawlessly (so far). And yes, I pay for this service. I have an annual subscription.

I personally believe an on-line version is something to consider. Now I haven’t done the math and I am not going to state outright that the investment is completely worth it. Only Keith can make that determination.

I can only speak for myself. And as far as that goes, I have been leaning towards getting a Chromebook for a while now. Whenever I think about it though, I remember Scrivener. “Oh yeah, I can’t.”

But the fact that there are already writing apps springing up on the web means that I won’t be held back for long!

The thing is, this goes beyond Chromebooks. Cloud-based in-browser apps are becoming more and more acceptable. Local apps are not on their way out yet, by any means. But the trend is there, no doubt about that.

Perhaps one way to start is to modify Scrivener to provide for cloud storage of files. Sure, this can be done by the app user with Dropbox (as I do). But Dropbox, Box, Google and Microsoft have APIs to allow developers to store and retrieve files from these services (AFAIK).

The next step would be to rewrite/convert/whatever the app itself to a browser-based version. There might be an investment in hardware here, or an upgrade to a web hosting service. But the storage of user files doesn’t necessarily have to part of the deal.

Anyway, that’s it. My two cents.

You forgot to mention iCloud, which is actually an excellent demonstration of why this is not as easy as it sounds.

iCloud works great for individual files. Many Mac applications use it to get synchronization between devices “for free,” right out of the box.

But it doesn’t work for Scrivener, and in fact is pretty much guaranteed to corrupt Scrivener projects because it doesn’t understand that the component parts of a project are related to each other. Oops.

Dealing with this sort of thing has been a major part of the delay in development of the iOS version of Scrivener: we’ve had to write our own synchronization tools on top of the standard APIs. (Full details in Keith’s blog post, here: literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=405)

Katherine

An online/ChromeOS version is probably a pipedream.

But as I believe I said, it doesn’t matter much.

After all, there are good writing apps in Chromebook, be it Google Docs or MS Word Online or even the website-based solution, Scriptito.

All of them are useful for writing in ChromeOS/Chromebook, and it’s a simple matter to pull that content out and import it into Scrivener once one is on their desktop PC.

I’ve been very fortunate that, thus far, I’ve never had Scrivener corrupt a file on me.

I save locally, but also synch to Google Drive and save backups to Dropbox. I like to use as many forms of file-loss protection as possible. :slight_smile:

Craiginoregon,

I’ve been away, so only now getting to respond to your detailed post in response to mine.

Like you, I’m a ‘working novelist’, and CEO of a software company, and a motorcycle accessory distribution company (oh, and trying to be semi-retired, and half way through my third Masters).

Samsung, Yes killed the Chromebook in the UK, and by all accounts considering it’s future elsewhere.

. According to Samsung’s latest financials, they are taking a bath in chrome books and notebooks. (They still don’t come out and divulge actual sales, or lack thereof.)

I always chuckle when anyone says chrome books are ‘doing well’. All the ‘talking up’ seems to be based on IDC’s figures. IDC, who are paid by Intel, MS and Google, amongst others (not Apple) (and where people like Computerworld get their headlines from) always play up ‘sales increases’, yet reality is NONE of the Chromebook mfrs release sales figures, so where do IDC get their figures from (thin air?).

In every quarter I have checked IDC revise the previous quarter’s figures down to ‘prove’ an increase in the current quarter. Remember these are ‘ESTIMATES’ of sales. As in their ESTIMATES of PC sales, when they claimed Apple was losing ground earlier this year, the result was a polar opposite to IDC’s claims. The reality of actual Chromebook sales seems to be well south of the IDC estimates.

Like you, as a ‘working novelist’ I hang about on line and in person with a good number of writers, (not to mention students and academics) and the uptake or stated intent to go Chromebook has been almost zero (we’re in Australia and we typically have a higher uptake in tech than any country, despite the ‘Australia Tax’ people like Adobe slam us with) I know a couple of students are interested in the new HP Windows notebook that is priced on par with Chromebooks and comes with 12 months online storage. Personally, I’ll keep investing in a MacBook.

There was nothing SNARKY about my comment. It’s a valid question.

Hey, thanks for the compliment. Yes I have a MacBook, purchased based on a thorough eval of hardware and software. It’s my second, after twenty odd years with Windows notebooks.

In my 30 plus years at senior management level in multinationals and my own companies, I’ve had a wide and varied exposure to all types of computers and O/S’s. We evaluated Chromebooks in depth earlier this year as an easy to roll out thin client style option for some staff, and decided they weren’t a valid option for us. I’d say my, and my IT team’s knowledge of chromebooks is pretty up there. When we were investigating, the only stats our IT dept came across showed the predominant use for chrome books was browsing, and some basic wp work. That was pretty much in line with our assessment of their worth to us as a company.

Yes, I’m old enough to remember the early Mac vs windows days. I wrote an accounting package on the very first Mac’s. I also wrote functionally equivalent packages on both CP/M and DOS machines. I can tell you which was the easiest to use, pre-Windows.There’s no disingenuous O/S bashing involved, just a considered opinion. My history with Apple, Linux and Windows (My software company is an MS partner) is extensive.

My statement about not rushing out to develop for Chromebook, is based on my experience of financial reality in software development and sales. Doesn’t have to agree with yours, and doesn’t necessarily say I’m right, but I have the background.

If a Chromebook suits you, go for it.

To Da_buckster, there is ZERO evidence to suggest even the beginning of a trend which would result in locally based apps being on the way out. The uptake on cloud based apps has been minuscule to date. (Creative Cloud doesn’t count, it’s just a subscription version of a locally installed app).

Like many people, I like to be able to pull out the iPad, MacBook, (substitute whatever brand you prefer) and work even when beside a remote beach with zero mobile connection. Cloud based will never enable that.

I used to push for an online version of Scriv when Chromebooks first came out. I still use one for surfing and note-taking, but finally I decided to go for a low-cost Windows laptop and install the basic software I need: Chrome, Scrivener, 1Pass, Dropbox, Skype etc. Chrome also provides access to online versions of the iCloud apps like iWorks, Calendar, and Contacts.

It was easy to set up and cost only $350 for a 15-inch screen. The Woot site sells “refurbished” (surplus) HP machines at low prices. I’m now tempted to replace our aging iMacs with 23-inch large-screen HPs for only $650, or half the Apple prices. That’s with i7 processors onboard.

Given the constant stream of troubles posted here by Wintel users, I was uneasy about shifting to the platform, but so far it’s gone well and my Scriv files work on either Mac or PC. Out of caution, I’m keeping the files simple, but it’s nice to have this low-cost option.

don’t know if this is already mentioned…couldn’t read through all the fracking posts…

but aren’t writers - the real kind who write novels - the type of folk who want to stay off the grid (which in our digitized world equates to being offline)? George Martin writes with a computer with no net access whatsoever.

So the idea of an online writing app kinda just seems unnecessary…

speaking of which, I need to go offline to get my work done. thank god I can work in scrivener offline.

By suggesting that “real” writers only write novels, you’ve insulted a very large fraction of Scrivener’s users. Please don’t do that again.

While George Martin’s writing computer may not have net access, I can guarantee that he and/or his research assistants do. Not very many writers – “real” or not – are likely to ignore one of the best research and communication tools ever invented.

So no, I wouldn’t say that offline only writers are particularly common.

Katherine

I was trying to indicate that this type of product is geared towards a specific audience. Of course, there is no such thing as a ‘real’ writer or an ‘unreal’ writer. That was a joke I guess in bad taste. So I’m sorry about that. There are poets, novelists, artists, programmers, so on and so forth. All of which this product has to be geared to.

The idea that all novelists want the same thing is pretty offensive and inaccurate also.

And then from the dark comes Asus C300 and you can have a light 13" machine with 10 hour battery time, crisp enough screen and 4G LTE for 300 obamas.
Here we go again, in the cloud, with ChromeOS.
I´d love to bring Scrivener with it.
8)

Did you read through all these posts? It sounds like if you want a writing solution for a chrome book, scrivener is not going to be your solution. I mean this in all earnestness. Writers write in a variety of ways. If having a chrome book (not my cup of proverbial tea) means that much to you, then find another solution and get to writing.

As for me? I love my iPad Pro and Desktop way more than a chrome book. If I had to replace my iPad Pro, it would be with a Surface Pro. Chrome books just don’t cut it for what I want.

But it is a very personal decision. Use what works for you.

Here is an example of what I mean. You can get a 2 in 1 tablet from the Microsoft store that is far more useful for around the same price. $299.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/ASUS-Transformer-Book-T100HA-MS-GR-Signature-Edition-2-in-1-PC/productID.328071400

An online version would be extremely beneficial. Here’s why:

  • I am planning to purchase the Windows version of Scrivener, and us it on my personal computer.
  • However, I wouldn’t be able to access Scrivener files on my work computer, because my company (like almost every company) does not allow unauthorized software.
  • When I’m at work, I’m using my work computer.
  • When I travel, I can’t take two computers, so I take my work computer so I can work remotely.

The only practical way to access Scrivener files would be with a web version of Scrivener. An Android app would also be a great way to access Scrivener.

A web version and an Android app would significantly increase the number of potential Scrivener customers.