I thought you meant “care”.
Filffy fings them is!!
rat
I would have thought that, of all classes of people, writers would be comfortable with the idea that some people are going to steal your work no matter what. And that, if you could magically flip a switch and make theft impossible, would-be thieves would still be staggeringly unlikely to cough up the price of admission.
So yes. Product activations and codes all do seem to me to be just another moving part ready to break at the next upgrade. But more, a piece of software I loved and respected has just demonstrated a sort of clueless naivete I never would have expected from it – the kind that made me leave its contemporaries in the first place. I’m sure Scrivener’s continued excellence will dispel this black doubt over time. Until then, I can only hope it was worth it.
Why thank you - now tell us what you really mean. 
I’m not sure of the argument though - writers know that their work will be stolen and therefore should just put up with it? If you had read the rest of this thread, and my replies, you will know that I was being anything but naive in my approach to this, and that I have put safeguards in place to ensure the software doesn’t lock you out even if things go wrong. But of course you are welcome to share your counter-opinions, and I am happy to take them on board - I absolutely value your opinion as a user, but do please try to express it in a way that doesn’t insult me.
Thanks and all the best,
Keith
Capn Grump, yronner, jus givvem sum of this!! 
rat
youtube.com/watch?v=VEwVAV3VPw4
I don’t agree with that - more the opposite. Writers may know that people are going to try to steal their work, but they are more likely to be vigilant about protecting it in any way that they can. So writers may be even more understanding about a bit of software that is trying to protect itself from piracy.
There are some people who will never pay. So what - who cares - they’ll never be customers. That doesn’t mean just giving up and handing it to them on a plate. Because that will encourage the ones who might pay, but if given the choice, will just take a pirate copy for free because it was easy.
And it’s not something new and insanely difficult. It’s a pretty standard thing for software. I have switched and upgraded several Macs recently, which meant reinstalling and reactivating software that I legally own. I had to jump through a few hoops to get my software running again - especially for the one that I couldn’t find my serial number and had to request it. But it was hardly worth tears and shouting at the unfairness.
This is a totally extraneous remark, with a dollop of insult as a garnish. It isn’t naive for a software developer to install safeguards against piracy, in fact it’s the opposite. The activation is part of the installation, and has no effect on the further running of the software. If you use the software, then you do so because it does the job you want it to do, and you enjoy using it.
If the activation ever did start to prevent the program from working at any point after installation, well I think Keith would consider that a bug, and review it.
I just paid for and got my registration code. It took two seconds… maybe!!.. and the product is unlocked. What is all this fuss about? This product is amazing. I have tested a bunch of writer’s products and most of them (honestly all of them), I couldn’t/wouldn’t use them if you paid me to. I am glad to pay the money for this application. I don’t understand why anyone would call it “naive” for a developer to require a registration code. Haven’t you ever purchased software before? (I am shocked by this whole controversy).
Thank you for this product, Keith. Honestly, 2 seconds… why is this even a question?
(And yes, I had until Dec 7th but I already decided on the first day (within maybe an hour or two) so I’m not sure why I bothered to wait even this long).
Yes, in fact, some people are going to steal your work. You have to live with that, but you don’t have to be comfortable with it. That’s a difference, and a huge one.
If you don’t punish the thieves, you are punishing the honest customers. It’s that simple. So, taking (reasonable, of course) precautions against theft is not only okay, it’s a moral duty.
One may discuss only whether a certain precaution is reasonable or exxagerated. In my opinion, Keith’s arguments are all reasonable, and the necessity of additional mesures simply reflects the increased significance of Scrivener in the realm of today’s writers.
Here is a lame brain idea - don’t use activation on the product, rather use a product serial number or code to gain an access password to an alternative professional writers’ web site where a whole lot of advanced and useful craft ideas can be had.
The notion is that Keith would issue a password related in some way to the purchased product password that allows the owner of the password to a revamped ‘crafty’ web site which is constantly referred to in ‘teaser’ comments all over the place - but which is only available to the ‘privileged landed gentry’ who have a special password.
Writers want to be empowered in many ways - publishing their work, supportive and useful networks and tools (Scrivener) and craft skills and knowledge (an on-line goldmine of resources).
Give them the tools (Scrivener) for the proper price and make the on-line resources desirable and dependent on having the correct Scrivener serial/access code/activation key.
Big problem with activation keys is mostly they assume a user will never change computers. Some writers change computers as often as they change their underpants (there you go, vic-k, just for you 
).
Pareto’s Law probably applies to this issue - 80% of folks are honest and will always pay for software. Of the 20% left who want to give any software a real workout beyond the demo limits, 80% will pay for it if they continue to use it regularly. Of the 20% left in that bunch 80% will play with it for a while and then flit like grasshoppers to some other novelty. Of the 20% left 80% will treat it like a software trophy on a hard drive jam packed with other software trophies they think they will get around to using ‘someday’. Only a very small 20% sample of the last remaining few will persist to the point where they will use it professionally - even then their consciences will give them a working over every time they use it.
In summary, the nerds who play with novel (pun intended) software such as Scrivener will very rarely go on to become regular users who will earn their living as writers.
And a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you too My Lord 
I am as ever, Sire,
Your faithful Servant
Vic-K
If I had such a professional writers’ website, it might be a nice idea. But even then, I don’t think there would be a massive take-up if that is the only benefit of buying.
The activation scheme in Scrivener doesn’t tie you to a single computer, by the way.
Good to see you around LL!
All the best,
Keith
Hi Keith,
Surely Scrivener is the real reason for buying the software. The idea of a bonus that only registered users could access might be sufficient to nudge the wavering few over the line to pay for the app. “But wait, there’s more.” is a siren song to people who are partial to a bargain.
Wannabes and dilettantes have money, too. As do university professors, translators, students, and others who don’t consider themselves “professional writers” but still generate written text.
The number of people who actually earn their living as writers is vanishingly small compared to the number of people for whom Scrivener might be useful. Since I want Keith to happily maintain Scrivener for years to come, I want all Scrivener users to register their copies.
Katherine
Another out of context comment. Exactly why I had given up on this site ages ago.
Obviously being any of “university professors, translators, students, and others who don’t consider themselves “professional writers” but still generate written text,” doesn’t help with reading meaning from context rather from an isolated sentence taken out of context.
My comment was about nerds who steal software and use it without paying for it. I suggested that real writers WOULD pay for it. That obviously includes writers of PhDs, Masters degrees, students etc etc etc. Also why I took down all the templates I made available to Scrivener users - including a PhD Template and a Master Fiction Template.
What is the instinct that so many have on this site to squash other people’s suggestions? Keep doing that and the suggestions will soon dry up.
So much for trying to make a positive contribution.
Suggest that you read up on Group Think and realise that you its victim.
READY - FIRE - AIM!
Please don’t leave, Lord Lightning, you’ve been sorely missed. Happy holidatys.
Oops. Happy holidays.
Clearly someone is not having a cheerful holiday. I’m sorry to hear that, and wish you all the best.
Katherine
No Katherine, I am having a great holiday.
But, my skin crawls and my heart freezes over when my words are taken out of context. Writers owe it to each other to respect the words they each use. When a fellow writer changes the clear meaning and intentions of something you have written it hurts a hell of a lot more than if someone not of the ‘craft’ does it.
Never, never, never, bend another writer’s meaning or intention by deliberately taking them out of context. It is the absolute height of disrespect and cheapens us all.
So next time you highlight a selected portion of another writer’s work then hit the quote button it had better contain the essence of that writer’s thoughts. To bend it to your own slant on things is unfair, unjust and discourteous. Invent your own ideas, don’t twist other’s ideas. Exercise your own intellectual rigour.
If you want to misquote and take a writer’s words out of context then there is ample room for that in politics or religion. There it is a skill to be admired. They love someone who can turn someone else’s argument 180 degrees in a single sentence.
A hundred years ago, when Keith started this site, it had the highest ideals and people truly focused on the craft of writing - in all arenas. Not only did he have the best writer’s software on earth, but he also had the best, the most lively and one of the most exciting web sites to be if you were a writer. Can’t we renew the aspirations we all had then?
Maybe it needs a bit of leadership. We are writers, not contenders. All it takes is an ounce of respect for other writers.
I’m sorry to hear you don’t like the site any more, LL - I agree that you have been sorely missed around these parts.
I think this was a misunderstanding, though. If I may offer my interpretation:
I believe your suggestion (and I may have misunderstood it) was that, instead of having users pay to register Scrivener, they could instead get Scrivener for free but only pay to receive access to special website content. I personally don’t think this would work as I think more people are likely to want to pay for the software than for website content - if the only advantage in paying for Scrivener is to gain access to bonus website content, many potential customers wouldn’t pay because they wouldn’t see the point. It would be an entirely different business model and would be built around a website rather than a product.
My interpretation of Katherine’s comment was only that she was saying pretty much the same - that the number of users who would pay for website content (working writers) would not be as high as the number for whom Scrivener itself is useful, and that it would therefore probably not work as a business model for Scrivener.
I think the accusation of “Group Think” is a little steep and unwarranted, and I think that is a grossly unfair assessment of this forum in general. I am constantly challenged by users on this forum, who frequently disagree and argue their point, just as much as I have ever been. If you look through the Wish List forum, for instance, you will see that when a user makes a suggestion, rather than another user telling them it’s no good, users often gang up on me - hardly “Group Think”! I don’t think the ethos of the forum has changed, and I’m sorry you think so, as this forum is still one of the pleasures of developing and working on Scrivener. I hope you hang around and change your opinion, as I for one would be pleased to see you back round these parts.
Happy holidays and all the best,
Keith
To a man, we`ll second that, again and again and ag…!
Your humble servants, Sire,
Vic-K,
Fluff,
Le D,
rat,
Dr Mulality,
Mammy Jameson,
Vicar, et.al.
