Preferred forms of tech support

you are both talking past each other. @devinganger explains what others want/prefer and @drmajorbob is explaining what he can do to best help others. cross purposes.

time to stop the bickering. :wink:

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The instances where that was a factor at AppleCare were so very rare as to be almost non-existent. Granted a very few had concerns when offered, but our expertly ( :grin: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:) trained advisors were in almost every case able to address that. Advisors are comfortable handling every type of customer from teens to 90’s which probably covers a greater cross-section than the average in-house IT support.

I will give you that even with the Win (and old OS/X) version that involved downloading an app that automatically deleted after completion of the call, the process could be easier than Zoom with an advisor used to doing it many times a day.

I think the key word in that sentence is “volunteer.” Volunteers are entitled to make their own decisions about how to spend their time, and are under no obligation to accommodate other people’s preferences.

As I’ve noted before, you can contact L&L’s paid support staff here:

Doing so will not only connect you with a person who is obligated to help you, but will allow you to jump directly to your actual issue rather than going around in circles in this sort of metaconversation.

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Well, no, your support was included in the cost of an Apple system (plus AppleCare, in many cases), and your time was paid for by Apple itself. It may not have generated an itemized charge to the user at the time of the conversation, but it most definitely was not “free.”

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Thank you for the link to the paid staff. I must say, however, that the word “volunteer” is being stretched to the limits of its definition when the person in question hits you up for money after what can only be called a perfunctory — and that’s putting a nice spin on it — attempt at solving the problem. I admit this is a subjective thing, but going right to “tips, please” after such a limited exchange felt a bit bait-and-switch. Like the volunteer is throwing out a couple curt, one-sentence answers that aren’t designed to solve the problem, knowing all along he wants to take the conversation to Zoom, whereupon he provides a link to a page strongly hinting that an exchange of money is expected. It all just seemed very contrived. (Not to mention useless for someone with a hearing impairment who gets nothing out of a Zoom call.)

The “volunteer,” as you point out, may choose to extend his services in any way he sees fit, however mercenary, exclusionary, discourteous, or tone-deaf it comes off. No one is disputing this. But it’s also the original poster’s right to express dissatisfaction with the volunteer’s attitude, in this instance as well as previous ones, and ask whether someone — anyone — besides him ever answers Scrivener-for-Mac questions. Perhaps due to the back-and-forth controversy this thread generated, others with input did jump in to provide support, and that is appreciated.

If you have a problem with any post in the forum, feel free to report it via the tools provided.

We have no ability to police what non-L&L employees do elsewhere on the web, and advise all users to perform their own due diligence when working with non-L&L consultants of all kinds.

None of that is accurate. I guided you to the basic issue, that No Style doesn’t act like a style. That’s useful information, but the details and how to work with it are too complicated (for me) to deal with in text messages.

I offered to do it in a Zoom session. In the Notion you read at my link, I said that I don’t do this for money, but I don’t turn down money if it’s offered. It’s often not offered, and I don’t worry about it either way. People donated around $700 last year. Big deal. I’ve been retired 22 years and I don’t care if I make money or not.

I said we could do it quickly in a Zoom, or you could experiment until you figure it out … which you certainly can do. It’s not rocket science, just – for a newbie – a bit time-consuming and maybe scary.

I could have elaborated, but I was getting dinner, talking to my wife, watching TV … and generally living my own life. Sorry if that came off as curt, to you. I was willing to help, but was not dedicated to it.

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Since this is the second contentious thread on this topic in the last week, I’d like to remind all participants that simply ignoring people with whom you disagree is an option.

The forum software facilitates this by offering “mute” and “ignore” commands. Click on the person’s user name, and look for the “Normal” dropdown menu at the right side of their profile page.

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What is the difference in functionality?

Mute turns off notifications. Ignore renders the person’s posts invisible.

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It’s not often I take issue with L&L staff and feel compelled to respond, however, your comment is IMHO pedantic in the extreme.

The support is free, that is without a separate cost to the end-user. It is also available over multiple instances until the issue is resolved.

Microsoft and others charge even more for products than Apple yet stick their hand out the moment support is needed outside of 90 days, or whatever other period they chose to impose.

Just a minor point, Zoom and Webex, amongst other remote sessions can be tailored to the completely deaf, let alone the hearing impaired. I have two grandchildren born profoundly deaf so am aware of the challenges faced.

As for your continued ‘issue’ with DMB, I know him from here and Scrivener Facebook pages.

While he may have a ‘blunt’ no-nonsense approach that eschews stroking sensitive or wounded egos, he does often answer user questions here and Facebook and many are happy for it.

But then it seems the old adage ‘let no good deed go unpunished’ still frequently applies.

And if that offends anyone, feel free to mute, ignore kick me off or whatever.

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This is where I go back to my statements about selection bias, because you don’t (reasonably so) have data on the cases where people choose not to engage with your support system. As an example, I’m not the only one who has made note of the trend that millenials and Gen-Z are far less likely to pick up the phone – or voice chat with strangers – than Gen-X and boomers are. As a result, more of them are likely to entirely avoid support offerings where those kind of interactions are the norm.

Nobody here is saying that screen sharing doesn’t work. I use it all the time for all sorts of things. I’m simply pointing out that technical merits are not and have never been the only factor in whether a solution is used, and selection bias tends to blind us to that fact. It’s normal and okay to need multiple types of support for a given population.

I can vouch for that. I got support from Apple for OS and Apple software even after my extended warranty expired. They even cleaned up the inside of an old 2009 MBP and replaced the very noisy and malfunctioning fans for free. That was in 2021, well beyond the warranty.

I think Mil/Gen-Z avoiding phone/chat is a bit of a myth. There may be some, but we took calls from 12-13 up (parent/guardian approval needed in younger) and didn’t see a significant difference in age vs process/outcome. There were SOME younger who preferred though our social media process, but often to throw one - two line - I wrecked my iPhone and you heartless people won’t give me a free one, my ‘friends’ played ‘stuff with my passcode’ at a party until the phone locked and now you’re saying I have to hard reset and lose all my photos which I’ve never bothered to back up or I forgot my AppleID password, don’t have a current recovery phone number (it’s a work phone number for old job or prepaid I let lapse), email (old work email they won’t give me access to) or ANY of the needed info and you say my AppleID is lost.

We analysed call/issue data until it hurt.

Glad to hear you had a great outcome. While I’m no longer at Apple, some of my best friends do still work there and they are a top bunch.

I always had a great experience with Apple regarding the MBP. ThunderBolt monitor, not so much. :rofl:

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Ah, yes I remember. I guess the lesson there is, no matter how good a product (or support) is, there can be clusters of ‘f.ck up.’

AppleCare once replaced the top of my MBP for one bad pixel.

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I should add, we were supporting that product until I left, probably still are - mostly related to incompatible USB-C cables/adapters that obviously don’t work with Thunderbolt.

The cable industry is all screwed up.