Reinstalling Leopard?

I’ve said this plenty of times before, but I’ll say it once again. As far as I’m concerned if you’re running 10.3.9 or later than preventative maintenance is a complete waste of time. Doing any of these things (deleting caches, repairing permissions, etc.) isn’t going to fix anything that’s not broken and also isn’t going to stop caches getting corrupted or permissions getting ‘broken’ etc (this last can only be done by Installer.app or by messing with privileges at the root level of your hard drive).

Having said that, if I things start going wonky with my machine I’ll start doing curative maintenance - usually starting with a simple reboot which fixes 95% of the few problems I have.

A couple of links about repairing permissions: ‘Repair Permissions’ Is Not a Recommended Step When Applying System Updates; Seriously, ‘Repair Permissions’ Is Voodoo

No kids, just dogs. And I can’t ever remember the last time I dropped a lightbulb, of any kind.

(Is this like those people who say “oh, well, I drop my brand new macbook air dozens of times every day, and it stands up to the wear extremely well…” what the hell are you people doing with your kit?!)

Here is a link directly from Apple where they DO at times recomeend at times to repair permissions before installing updates.
docs.info.apple.com/article.html … duh17.html

The quote line directly from Apple that is important.

It is not “them” that is suggesting this or the “Others” but the actual manufacturer of the product that is stating this. Why? To make sure the Installation goes smoothly and the system is running at its most efficient settings. A third party installer does is not always granted ROOT access and permission settings can interfere with third party software as well as the Operating System itself leading to FUTURE problems because at the actual time of the installation there were permission issues that prevented a correct isntallation.

The rule of thumb is like this. If you install a system update or new software and it screws up permissions for certain files and you do not repair them then the next time around when another update or installation occurs and you go to install that future update the installer may run into a problem with permissions which could lead to corruputing the install or worst case scenario making your OS unstable and unusable and a reinstall becomes the viable solution.

Number 1 reason for problems with people upgrading from Tiger to Leopard during the isntallation process. Permission issues that led to incomplete updating.

Number 1 solution to fix the problem for most users when upgrading to Leopard.

UNINSTALL any third party plugins and REPAIR PERMISSIONS before starting the upgrade process. Also a CLEAN INSTALL was highly recommended because then new permission sets are applied during the installation process.

Cleaning out caches, repair permissions, etc are maintenance items usually set aside for when a problem occurs. Repairing permissions before an update is to make sure there is no problem DURING the installation or AFTER the installation and to maximize 100% efficiency from the operating system.

included in your daring fireball link is this important line

So applying an system update to a system that is not running 100% correctly may still run after the update but may run SLOWER due to erroneous permissions that were NEVER repaired during the installation process or the installation could fail and cause an incomplete installation which could lead irrecoverable corruption of the Operating System.

The choice is up to the user. Some recomend changing your oil in your car every 3,000 miles and to get tune-ups at set times. Some feel this is ridiculous and don’t follow that advice. It all depends on the user.

But to think an OS is 100% reliable I only have to point out that even Apple has problems with their own software and permissions settings during an installation. Myself, I would rather take the 10 minutes to make sure things are okey dokey before doing something extensive like a Operating System upgrade.

Each to their own. Some people where seat belts, some don’t. Wearing a seat belt will not prevent a car accident but it can make the impact of an accident much more recoverable.

I think the most important point in the knowledge base article you link to is this:

As far as I’m concerned if I’m not experiencing any of these problems then running repair permissions is a waste of my time. Also see this knowledge base article Troubleshooting permissions issues in Mac OS X which lists some ‘issues related to permissions’ and how to correct them.

I guess the only drawback would be that you have a slight permission problem that is so far unnoticeable (system response is still appears to be ok) and then you do an install that gets hosed due to one small permission error during the next update. The only way to truly know if all your system permission settings are correct are to either use the System Utility, a third party utility or to manually check each file.

Since installing software is not usually a daily activity running a quick check before an installation can bring to light any problems BEFORE the installation process is started instead of after the installation and results of failure become apparent.

Kinda like checking to make sure a gun is unloaded before you start cleaning it.
:slight_smile:

No, this is not my understanding. When you run a package through installer (or Software Update) that package gets installed with root or admin privileges (hence having to type in your password). All the relevant permissions needed to install the files within the package are contained in the package receipt (that ends up getting stored in your Receipts folder and gets checked against when running Repair Permissions). So having incorrect permissions on a file or folder can actually get fixed by running an install program, I occasionally run combo updaters as a curative measure occasionally for this very reason.

If only ALL third party installers worked this way but alas they do not. It is usually with Third Party installers that the “permission” woes occur. Also many programs (suchs as Printer files or iTunes) may have inncorrect settings applied during installation which until repair permissions is run can cause problems because most users do not operate their account under root. Root may used in the installation process but if a file has the inccorect permissions set once the install is over and the user tries to “run” the program and they are not signed in as root then a problem could arise which could lead to corruption of other files (prefs, cache, etc)

Once a program is launched the first time if it makes or attempts to make changes and runs into permission problems or causes permission problems the results can be odd at times or can cause future problems down the road leading to corrupt cache files, preferences, etc which have to be rooted out and repaired. A cascading issue that can arise due to a “faulty” installation and incorrect permissions set for the “User” when they try to launch the program using permission sets not set as root.

As mentioned before the actual INSTALLER does NOT repair permission so a file may be assigned incorrect permissions during the installation period. An example is this. If it were as you say then anytime iTunes is installed it should automatically be fixed of any permission issues. But this is not always the case because during the installation process the wrong permissions sets could be applied and would only be corrected AFTER one ran Repair permissions which would then compare the current Permission Settings that a file has to the default settings in the receipt. If any changes are detected they are “reset” back to the correct values in the receipt. But until you run Repair permissions the incorrect permission settings could still be in use.

A simple test is this. Run repair permissions AFTER a brand new installation of OSX and you will find some permissions had to be repaired. If the “installer” worked as you thought then after an installation your permissions should be already fixed which is not the case. Because a User does NOT run their system while signed in as root and even though an installer may sign in as root sometimes to Install the proper files where they should be placed that doesn’t mean the files are set with the proper permission setttings 100% of the time. Hence once you are done you are running an “unstable” system until you “reset” your permission settings with Repair permissions while under the USER account and not as Root.

Some culprits for hooky permissions settings after an installation are

iTunes
Quicktime
Adobe Products (many)
Microsoft Products(sometimes)
Printer Files and Updates (notorious)

And files dragged from a Locked Disk or “Network Disk” can sometimes have permission woes. Many people see that if they copy a file to a networked server or say a CD-R sometimes they have “read Only” access and have to change the permission set manually because the parent settings were applied to the residing files.

In the end it doesn’t matter what method you use, whether you choose to attempt to be preventive or proactive, in the end if there is a permission problem, eventually you are gonna have to initiate a process to fix it either way. Choosing to do it before (preventive) or after (proactive) is soley up to the users discretion.

Myself though when recommending anything to a user I tend to offer the “safe” way. It may take longer but for the average user who doesn’t understand more so on the technical side and are not too savvy about hunting down problematic systems but I noticed they tend to become frustrated or turned off if an unforeseen problems arises without forewarning, leading to the assumption that the advice they were given caused more harm than good.

Kinda like an English teacher taught me. “First I am going to teach you all the rules. Then I am going to teach you how to break them. But in order to break them you have to know what they are first and you have to know when you can break them and when you shouldn’t.”

What ever way you choose is not a bad way when running OS X because in the end it is an elegant system in the way it is setup.

My favorite thing is when a Windows User asks me “How often do you defrag your HD.”

My answer: “I don’t. It does it itself.”

:slight_smile:

Interesting. Today, for the first time since owning my current MacBook (2.2 GHz ‘Santa Rosa’) which I purchased back in November, I was seeing a lot of spinning beach balls while using Word 2008 to do some school stuff. I have honestly not performed a single maintenance routine on this MacBook since buying it because it has performed flawlessly since day one - until today. After reading some of the posts in this thread I thought I’d fire up Disk Utility, repair permissions and see what it had to say. I have installed a lot of software on this MacBook - everything from Adobe CS3 to Office 2008 and a host of smaller programs. I was expecting a huge log of incorrect permissions but this is what I received: