Scrivener and Bookends

I’ve searched the forum and whilst there are various threads on Bibliographic software none seem to address my specific question.

Basically, how do others use Bookends with Scriv? I should add I’m a newbie to Scriv and find it a wholly different way of working, so please stay with me.

Scenario: I wish to insert a footnote. So in Scriv- Insert footnote and the marker appears. Now I wish to paste in my (MHRA) formatted footnote (more accurately a reference) from BE, but this does not appear to work. Type it in and the formatting gets lost when I transfer to Nisus, although this could be Nisus implementation of RTF. OTOH it could be Scriv :slight_smile:

How are others doing this? I really want Scriv to work for me but I’m having to think of going back to my ‘old’ ways (Word), rather than spending time trying to do the workrounds.

This is how I do it: I work with Bookends’ temporary citation code in Scrivener (as I would in Word) and format for the citation style (MLA in my case) when I’m done with the piece and ready to format it for publication.

So this would be an example code: {Chaney, 2001, #9420@399}
@399 is the page number. Bookends can turn this into whatever style you choose when you scan the document (once you’ve compiled your draft and it resides outside Scrivener):

In-text citation: (Chaney 399)
In the Bibliography:
Chaney, Michael A. “Picturing the Mother, Claiming Egypt: My Bondage and My Freedom as Auto(Bio)Ethnography,â€

I use the combination of Bookends, Scrivener and Mellel.

Like jottce I set Scrivener as the default word processor in Bookends (at a later stage of work it sometimes comes handy to temporarily set Mellel as the default word processor).

I do all the writing in Scrivener and by having it set as the default word processor cmd+y allows me to jump back and forth between the two programs easily. I even set the bibliography/citations short cut in Scrivener to cmd+y because it confuses me to use shift in one direction and not in the other. By default Cmd+y in Scrivener is already used for something else which seems to be very important for other users, not for me, I can’t even remember what it was. But that depends on what you do, of course.

When you switch from Scrivener to Bookends, mark the reference in your reference database and push cmd+y to get something like {Blount, Arachnoids} in your Scrivener file. You add the page number like this: {Blount, Arachnoids@612}.

This is only a placeholder, not the final appearance of the reference. It’s human readable so you know what you are quoting and it will help in the scanning process.

The scanning process itself can not be done in Scrivener! You will need a “real” word processor for that, in my case it is Mellel.

When you finished the writing in Scrivener you export to your word processor and start the scanning. The format you get is the one you chose in Bookends.

Your first reaction might be: I need a third program to do the reference and bibliography correct? Then why not cut the middleman, i. e. Scrivener?

Scrivener is a writing program and for a lot of people (including myself) a very, very comfortable way to write and superior to the classic word processor. On the other hand, it is not a layout program.

I doubt that you will be able to bring an academic paper to the recommended form only with Scrivener. You will need a word processor, a dedicated layout program or maybe LaTeX for that. Scrivener is for the creative part of your work, the looks come later.

So you won’t need an additional word processor just for the reference stuff.

Nevertheless, there is another way of using the Bookends and Scrivener combo: Instead of returning from Bookends via cmd+y you simple could copy and paste the full citation from Bookends’ preview.

Then you get “Blount, Keith: Do Arachnoids Dream of Electric Flies? London: William Collins & Co. Ltd. 2009, 5th printing” and add something like “, p. 612”.

But this not only takes more time per citation than the cmd+y/placeholder way. The placeholders seem to confuse a lot of people but you will find how useful they are at the point where your work is finished and only needs some polish, some typos to be corrected, some splitting up of a too long paragraph etc. And then you (or if you’re still a student maybe your professor) discover that in the citations of, like, magazine articles the title must be printed in italics, but you didn’t.

When using placeholders you correct the formatting for magazine articles in Bookends just once and scan your text again. If you just copied and pasted every reference, which means it is just text like the other text, you will find yourself in search and replace hell. And isn’t there a deadline waiting for you …?

Thanks for the help jottce and suavito.

Are you both using the Harvard system or footnotes - sometimes called the Oxford referencing system?

It’s when I transfer to Nisus it all seems to go awry.

I use the parenthetical version of the MLA (Modern Language Association) Style, with few explanatory footnotes.

I am not quite sure I understand your problem. Do the footnotes disappear entirely? Then it may be either a Nissus problem “reading” the rtf footnotes, or a matter of setting the right preferences for compiling the draft in Scrivener. Under “Text options” in the “compile draft” dialog there is a checkbox that allows you to “include footnotes” either as footnote or endnote. If you don’t have that checked, you may lose the footnotes when you are compiling the draft.

Hope this helps,

Double post - Sorry!!


I think I’ve cracked it with the aid of a Nisus macro. Basically what I do is to paste the formatted footnote (reference) text in the place where the footnote marker goes. Thus:

…body text{Stephen V. Ward, Planning and Urban Change (London: Paul Chapman, 1994). p 24}. More body text…

I then compile/export from Scriv which produces an rtf file which I drop on the macro. This converts the text {footnote text} into properly placed and numbered footnotes and puts footnote markers in the appropriate place.

Job done!

I’ve not yet experimented with BookEnds scanning the files but this way works for me, so I’ll leave it until later.

Once again thanks for the help.

Just released: Bookends 10.2, which can “Scan RTF documents saved from Scrivener that have accented characters”.

Just to know!