Scrivener for iPad

Scrivener Wish List
201

Is Turing far enough back for you, or should we drag Babbage in as well? And we definitely need to talk about Intel, since it’s unlikely that Apple would have achieved even its current 8% share of the PC market if it hadn’t made its hardware Windows-compatible. And about Unix in all its manifestations, since that’s what OS X is behind the fancy interface. Although what any of that has to do with the market opportunity of the iPad vs. Windows is beyond me.

It looks to me like you are the one who is trying to pick a fight here. I tip my hat to Keith, as I’ve seen people banned from other forums for far less.

Katherine

202

Ok, I came to this thread for the repartee but I stayed for the bloodletting. This is like mud-wrestling, watch & enjoy but if you’re in the first row remember to hold your hand over your drink.
I got a bit apprehensive when I heard zippers and the measuring tapes were pulled out but it all ended well.
The discussion about content creation vs consumption is causing me to think that an iPad might be a great gift for “she who shall not be named.” I’m thinking she might be so enthralled by the this-is-not-a-computer interface that I might wrest the MacBook from her mighty grip. (Phew! I almost said, talons). A potentially fatal error, that.
I wish there was an Apple store nearer than 60 miles, though. I’d like to get her to play with one for a bit to see how she likes it, ‘cause if I buy one and she doesn’t care for the thing, I don’t think it’ll appeal to me enough to keep it. I was thinking about buying a Mac mini but now I’m wondering how the iPad would work for us.
If anyone has hands-on experience with an iPad, I’d be interested in your thoughts.
*Note to self: Never, never, ever ask for Scrivener on the iPad lest the big brains be loosed upon you.

203

You might check over here. Druid has posted a series of impressions regarding the device, more from a research and notation standpoint, but also as a casual browsing device as well.

204

I’m getting many e-mails a day asking for this, and everyone gets a nice reply. :slight_smile: (But then, I don’t have a big brain to loose upon anyone…) There’s nothing wrong with asking for Scrivener iPad - it makes me happy that Scrivener users like Scrivener so much they want it elsewhere too. And all of these requests are duly noted, just as the Windows requests were duly noted (maybe we’ll have more news on that soon, heh). And almost everyone I reply to who has asked for Scrivener-for-iPad replies along the lines of, “Oh, I totally understand you don’t have the resources right now,it’s a shame but I like Scrivener on the Mac, and it would be nice to have on the iPad one day!” and I agree, it would probably be nice one day. I only ever get narky when people tell me that I should risk everything I’ve done so far, or pretty much give up the Mac version, to work on a version for another platform.

So, Wndows 7… :slight_smile:

All the best,
Keith

205

Druid has been posting updates on his experiences using the iPad in various contexts on one of the other threads. Oh, beaten to it by the grown-ups. But still, worth repeating.

At some distant point in the future, I can see myself getting an iPad to replace my reference books, and to have by the side of the actual device I compose my work and my fiction in (hey, by then that might even mean the same thing). Whether the latter is paper-based or as now, my Macbook, I can see the other device becoming everything Mr Adams presaged in H2G2.

My main usability issue, like a lot of people (and as others have said, this may be a generational thing)is that I can’t imagine typing for a long period on anything other than a physical keyboard. And the idea of fishing a keyboard out of my bag to attach to whatever device I’m using (iPod touch, iPhone or iPad) seems so ludicrously pretentious that I can’t imagine doing it without dying of shame. I feel self-conscious enough taking my Moleskine out of the bag…

Hmm. Although now I think about it, if the keyboard were part of the stand, that doesn’t seem so bad.

But then again, if Mac users who already have a copy of Scrivener want to pay for another copy of Scrivener developed just for the iPad, then maybe, just maybe, some people have more money than sense. Screw it, I want Scrivener to work on my Edirol, Keith. Make it work. Do it. In fact, Keith should just screw us all, and release any old bobbins on iTunes, and pick up all the early-adopter dollars. What? Oh. Yes, it’s fully working. It’s ‘feature restricted to enrich the user experience’.

I had to field a call from a customer once asking why the website we’d just advertised on national radio didn’t work. On an Amstrad e-mailer thing. I gave her the number of the people who made her machine. I felt a little bad, afterwards.

Anyhoo. Obviously this wonder device is going to make us all more productive, fertile, eat less wheat and discover more fossil fuel. So I intend to order two, and give one to the dog. I don’t own a dog (yet), but when I do, it will be the most cross-platform dog you can get, so that this thread will not have been entirely wasted. And when it barks, a thousand words will miraculously be added to my project total. And I will train it’s tail to stroke my furrowed brow if I get in a fix regarding the pluperfect, or third act third person third hand narrative.

It’s probably time for bed, said Zebedee. (I hope there isn’t a Zebedee user on here, as that would be awkward. Not as awkward as typing six thousand words on a glass screen, but you know, socially unacceptable. Manners maketh the forum dweller. And also maketh the monster from under the bridge from the Grimm Bros. And the misunderstood puppy from Warner Bros. And a seven inch single from Bros).

Good night, Seattle. Redmond. What. Ever.

206

I suddenly realised that my neighbour must be Stephen King.

207

I may get killed for pointing it out but…

I would actually like the ability to read a finished Word or Pages format manuscript on a tablet and do minor editing, notes, comments etc. If Pages on the iPad was actually capable of doing this, instead of mangling all the important revision material, I might have stumped up for it (though I doubt I’d do any serious writing on the thing). We now know that iPad Pages is actually Pocket Pages or Pages Lite and NBG for that anyway.

But there is at least one tablet coming along that will run a full version of Word, and one assumes a full version of Scrivener were a compatible one to appear. It’s the Windows 7-based HP Slate. I’m sure the iPad hammers the Slate at the things the iPad is good at it. But for reading and tinkering with a manuscript the Slate could be great. My workflow always involves exporting a final manuscript from Scrivener to Pages for a final, final revision anyway. I could do that in Word though I’d prefer Pages. But since there isn’t a working iPad Pages editor that can handle comments and track changes…

208

bodsham,

Want to wager how long it will take for someone to hackintosh a slate into full functionality? How long will “moral adherence to EULA” last once that happens?

209

That’s a very good point. Or wait for Dell to come out with a tablet, because they seem to make their netbooks almost deliberately compatible with OS X in order to make up for the fact Apple - ludicrously in my view - won’t enter that market.

I already know one US literary agent who has abandoned a purchase of the iPad because it can’t be used to comment on manuscripts and is planning to get a Slate instead.

210

Dell takes the approach that OSS should be supported and helps deliver drivers for OSS operating systems. OS X is based on one of these operating systems. The hackintosh method replaces the kext that are specific to Apple HW with the Dell compatible version.

Huge simplification, but no one really cares how it all works.

211

I’ve been a lurker here for a little while, so I appreciate your reasons for not committing to either a Windows or iPad version Scrivener. However, if one day a Windows version was released, I think that the “nearly 1,000 Window users” who already have an interest in Scrivener would grow exponentially, in time generating huge sales.

FWIW, I’m not coming from a Mac v PC angle. The quality of Macs, OS X, the growing Mac user base, etc, is widely accepted and rightly so. However, Macs remain relatively expensive compared to PCs, and many writers prefer matt screens. Of these, many consider a new 15" or 17" MacBook Pro (the only Mac laptops currently offering a matt screen option) as overkill and too expensive for their needs. They also don’t want to resort to buying 2nd hand, increasingly aged PPC iBooks - the last models Apple made are already 5 years old. On the PC platform, however, even relatively inexpensive Samsung netbooks offer matt screen options.

So I agree that maybe eventually doing a Windows version of Scrivener, if you can find the right terms from interested programmers, seems far more feasible than an iPad version. Just from reading recent iPad reviews by respected critics like David Pogue, it seems a reasonable assumption that relatively few people are likely to buy an iPad for creative pursuits like writing, but mostly for consuming web content, social networking, etc.

All the best with completing your latest version of Scrivener.

212

I’ll keep using my 13" MacBook. It’s not much bigger (although a good bit heavier, 4.5lbs is still nearly a netbook), 7 hours of battery off wifi is good enough for anything I’ll do. If I’m stuck with out, I can always use Auteureist and import into Scrivener later, and pretty easily to boot.

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Over 200 posts don’t seem enough, and since the context has turned almost trivial I figured I’d waste my first post here :slight_smile: (Hi!)

I’ve owned Scrivener for a while and have leisurely read the forums from time to time. I’ve also seen KB’s posts in programming forums, asking some of the same questions (years ago) I’m looking to answer now as a programmer. I must acknowledge I’ve grown over time to be a KB fanboy, as the recently departed (from the forums) fellow called it. Honestly, I would rather be a fan of someone like Keith than a large uncaring corporation. Keith, you’re intelligent, sincere, creative, reachable, and… human. Not only human, but not afraid to admit it when the occasional emotion gets the best of you.

What you are not, my dear friend (and someone I don’t really know), is an entrepreneur. Maybe artist, or artisan, or craftsman – I’m not even sure if programmer is a fair label. I know you have stated your background, and your intention for creating Scrivener, but it would be so much easier if everyone could just understand. I think you’ve grown as a business owner, and in your entrepreneurial tendencies, but at the end of the day that’s not what drives you.

Yes, an artist wants to make a living and possibly be known for what they accomplish. But artists have a style that overrides other decisions, including monetary ones. Artists are not afraid to struggle for their cause, which I think goes against the very grain of the entrepreneur. In many ways I don’t think entrepreneurs quite understand artists. The end result, though, can be striking. While business-minded companies produce products for the masses, you’ve produced a product for the writer (not plural!). Working in Scrivener is almost like a personal experience – like joining a club where everyone is welcome and all know your name, and the task at hand becomes transparent. This is your style, to me.

I know many people would like to see Scrivener become more suited to their needs, and I’m sure great ideas come out of this communication. But as you consider your roadmap, and whether to pursue new platforms, please don’t let the pressures from others steer you from being true to your art. I’m confident 2.0 will be a masterpiece, and I’m another person that supports you, and will support you ($$).

Oh, and I almost forgot the rule for telling Keith how to run his business: My background. I’m a programmer who owned/ran a business for a few years, mainly developing web applications, and I currently work as a programmer for a major university. I’ve also been a musician/songwriter/lyricist for many, many years (hey, another non-writer than loves Scrivener!) The worst decision I ever made for my business involved giving too much weight to other opinions and not my own gut feeling. The difficult part sometimes is “hearing” your gut with all that gurgling drowning it out.

Peace.

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Welcome to the forums, VieAuNaturel, and many thanks for your kind words and support - much appreciated!

All the best,
Keith

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Longshot suggestion: I don’t think this has already come up but if it has my apologies, I skimmed the whole enormous thread, having come to it late.

I read K’s compelling thoughts on why there’ll be no scrivener for the iPad for the foreseeable future, and have nothing but respect for it. I totally get why, from an indie developer’s p.o.v., the iPad is at best a bittersweet development, and the economies involved preclude porting scrivener over. Get it, got it, no argument.

However. Here’s the thing.

I love scrivener boundlessly and use it for all my writing (at which I make my living). I also, with all respect to the sceptics, expect the iPad to become a totally indispensable input device for me and other writers (also artists, and in both cases I suspect Jobs et al haven’t quite realised yet how much that’s the case). I’d been hankering for a netbook, but the moment the iPad arrived, I realised that as long as it could connect to a keyboard, I expect to love it even more than a netbook, because i) small! and ii) it better combines the function of book-to-read-during-coffee-break with input device without the keyboard in the way. (Me, I want a stylus too, but that puts me in a minority.) Basically all I want from my day-to-day machine is email, net, writing input and reading documents/books, and this I think could be that in absolute spades.

So I know that I will really really want scrivener for the iPad. I also totally respect why you want to focus on OS X. Any idea how much it would cost for an iPad OS developer to port over Scrivener and look after it? To update it periodically as there are updates in the OS X program, which of course would remain the main program?

Because I would be more than willing to pledge, say, a hundred quid to a Port-Scriv-to-the-iPad Fund!

Would there be any mileage in some kind of pledge-drive (maybe even transferring the funds by paypal or something on the understanding that if, after a certain time, the necessary dosh wasn’t amassed, they’d be returnable or something)? Then if you did find there’s enough of us prepared to throw some money at this as a project, you could employ a specialist porter when the necessary total was reached?

(What this would not address is the perfectionist problem of letting someone else at it, granted - I’m groping for least-bad scenarios, here.)

Basically I doubt very much I’m alone in considering scrivener indispensable, while also strongly suspecting the iPad will, far from being a netbook manqué, become equally indipensable. Fully cognisant of the bind you as developer of my favourite software’s in, I’m eager to work out ways out of it.

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There are two problems with this sort of approach:

  1. The cost. It would mean employing somebody, and to employ a fully-qualified programmer who is doing it for the money and not the love would mean paying him more than I take. :slight_smile: A lot, in other words.
  2. I categorically would never want to take money from people for something that doesn’t exist.

I’m looking forward to checking out the iPad, but it really will never become a substitute to a laptop for me as far as I can see, the more I read about it and look at it. The main thing to know is this, though: it will not be able to run a version of Scrivener that does everything Scrivener does. (Please no one reply to this saying that you don’t want it to - yes, I’m aware of that idea, it’s been repeated dozens of times above; I’m purely replying to Steenstrupian’s idea here.) The iPhone OS is fundamentally not capable of doing everything Scrivener is - it’s a mobile platform, it isn’t intended to. So, if you were hoping for an iPad to replace your day-to-day machine, you would not be able to have the Scrivener experience on the day-to-day machine at all. The only way an iPad version of Scrivener would work is as a very basic, stripped-down version. As Andy Ihnatko said on MacBreak Weekly, it would have to be a “packed lunch” - a way of being able to work on your project while out and about before bringing it back to Scrivener on the Mac for the proper work.

Anyway, I will explore possibilities, but as I say, it would be foolhardy indeed to jump in at the deep end.

Thanks for the enthusiasm and all the best,
Keith

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Nothing wrong with packed lunches.

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I see Keith has already answered for himself, but here’s a customer’s view:

For me, Scrivener is very good partly because it pulls together a bundle of features which one could conceivably create using a number of individual applications, but which it is much more useful to have “under one roof”. The whole becomes more than the sum of the parts. Yet many of those features depend on a proper, physical-keyboarded OS X platform with a decent-sized screen. For its full worth, Scrivener requires not just rich text, but also (ideally) other features such as screen acreage, multi-tasking, a keyboard you can hammer away on for hours, and easy printing.

Strip out some or all of those capabilities, and what will you have? Something, maybe something worthwhile, but will it be so much better than “packed lunch” note-taking applications for the iPad already in being or on their way?

There are several other “heavy-duty” OS X applications in the same boat: Tinderbox, Curio, and DevonThink to name three. All face calls from their customers for iPad versions. I’ll be interested to see how the upcoming DevonThink iPad/iPhone app translates. I wonder if some of these heavy-duty applications will lose quite a lot if they are required to slim down and simplify to fit on the iPad, however ingenious the methods used. Or alternatively they may remain too complex for the platform, even if ported over - with too much drilling down and too many panes.

If I buy an iPad, I think that in the short term I will look to install simple, nimble writing, outlining and information management applications which are designed for the platform from the outset, yet which have a chance of talking to Scrivener, rather than replacing it.

H

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As I’ve noted in another thread (https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/ipad-as-a-writing-research-tool/7271/1), the iPad already has several outlining and writing apps that create notes or texts for import to Scrivener. And one may export a Scrivener text to the iPad, if needed. The same is true for netbooks using other software, like PageFour. Given its current limitations of memory and app interface, the iPad isn’t suited for Scrivener and vice-versa.

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I certainly can imagine an Ipad version that would present only the entire draft folder as an edit scrivenings session. No notes, no binder, no links, no fiddling. Just the burning Rome of the text itself ready and waiting for some old fashioned sofa (or bath) editing. Much like a printout but automagically synced back to the desktop version. An excellent opportunity to switch modes and focus on the draft.
I can just hear Keith screaming all Munch-like: “But it’s a programming nightmare!”
Yes, yes, but i can dream can’t I?