Table of Contents in ePub - Someone Being Lazy?

When compiled to ePub, the internal TOC is represented by one single item, “Contents”. For the shame of it.

Why this $40 program can’t do such rudimentary things that other free programs (like Sigil) do (and everything works fine)? Don’t you say that correct xml markup is such an awful thing to implement in what you proudly call Scrivener’s compiler. And yes, saying that Screwiner :smiley: is meant for rough drafts is another lame excuse (oft-used around here), as in your tutorial you admit there are many things in this toy of yours that many writers would never use, and that’s true. These frills are fun to code, we get it, but what about dire necessities? Who needs a collection of articles in epub without navigation? That’s what most of people would really appreciate. The same goes for bookmarks in pdf, which are still absent, too. I do not mention fb2 support which was suggested few times here (and by myself, almost a year ago), as by now Scrivener does not even fully support its ‘supported formats’.

As the venerable Fry has been commandeered to say in recent years:

Can’t tell if serious, or trolling

Fry? Gay? Fnarr, Jeeves. Expunge that queer Fry fish from your memory.

Desperation, my lord, pure desperation. If you know how to solve this problem within Scriviner — please, elucidate. And if you don’t, just shut up your fountain, like one Russian classic had said once.

You’re complaining that it can’t be done, and that you don’t agree with the reasons for why what you want hasn’t been implemented, despite the fact that you not agreeing with them doesn’t make them invalid.

Then you use your OP to insult not only the developers (of whom there are only a few) but also other people on the forum who’ve tried to explain why what you want won’t, or possibly just can’t, be added.

I try to bring a little levity to the situation, since you lacked so much of it in your post, and you respond with hostility.

Well, I say, good luck with trying to get what you want. Your approach probably definitely works somewhere, so why not here, right?

PS, Not sure what you’re on about with “Fry? Gay? Fnarr, Jeeves. Expunge that queer Fry fish from your memory.” Will assume a lapse in judgement.

No hostility, my lord. It’s a funny literary saying of the 19th century,

‘If you have a fountain, shut it up’.

Almost Vonnegutian in its meaning.

I can translate it into your faddish English full of fries and trolls — if you can’t help, stop trolling and lecturing instead of being humble and helpful. I’m in my right to criticize the product, if I don’t see the answer to my question. And I don’t see it, neither in tutorials nor here at this forum (which I checked before posting). The result of me checking this forum is that I installed free Sigil and started studying it, instead of studying Scrivener which I honestly bought. In this particular way this forum was helpful indeed, but only in this way. Why don’t you rename it then — To Hell With Screwiner, Let’s All Use Sigil instead? :smiley:

Perhaps if you practiced what you’re suggesting, you’d get more helpful responses. Note that only a handful of people who post on these forums are employed by Literature and Latte, and those of us who spend a good deal of time here don’t take kindly to rude behavior. I, for one, am not inclined to be humble or helpful to you at this point.

FYI, a table of contents as part of an ebook’s content is redundant. E-readers can navigate to individual chapters via their menus, and Scrivener can absolutely, and quite easily output an e-book which e-readers can navigate in that manner.

I hate to tell you that you are absolutely wrong. My initial post was humble and detailed, and it stayed unanswered for a day, before I rewrote it the right way. And immediately got tons of cordial replies.

rdale, I don’t quite see what you mean. I mean intrinsic TOC, not the html one placed at the beginning of the text (which might be viewed as redundant or optional). Somehow, Sigil generates epubs that have that intrinsic TOC, and it’s fully functional (and it works even for ereaders on Windows Mobile!), and Scrivener fails to do the same trick (for both modern and legacy ereaders, both desktop and portable epub applications), no matter how I tweaked the bloody compiler.

So you are double wrong, dude, despite your assertive tone. And this forum is riddled with unanswered questions regarding piss poor generation of TOC in ebooks. So I don’t see your reasons for protecting the developers. I thanked them already with my billfold, and now I want some clear technical answers, and not your moral hymns.

You understand how rude this is, right? And you haven’t even been chatting with actual developers, just people that would probably try to help if you weren’t being antagonistic. Once again, good luck with the way you deal with people, I’m sure you’ll eventually get whatever you want.

First, I wasn’t addressing anyone, just conveying my critical view to developers in open democratic form. It was you who attacked me first in person, and then that other guy. You two need moral lecturing, not me. Anyone who cares to reread this thread would see that you started this offtopic.

Second. Compile the tutorial project with “Ebooks with parts” and “.epub” preset. Then, try to open it in Sigil. Sigil (the latest build) fails to open it and casts error over wrong formatting. Older ereaders don’t see internal TOC in such file, except for one item, “Contents”. In other words, Scrivener produces erroneous, badly formatted epubs. And many users before me complained here about poor implementation and control over e-book compilation in Scrivener. The only answer they get is still this one — Scrivener is not a tool for finalizing your files (which sounds odd, but no one pays attention to this), use other software (like Sigil) if you need a desired result. Which also sounds like “To Hell With Screwiner”. It’s not what I invented, it’s all around this forum!

Any attempt to rant over my message and my replies to rantors, instead of discussing the problem, lends to this fact. Someone just being lazy. Even to reply, in technically instructive and corporately responsible manner.

Dear shirozaemon,

I am also just another user, and have nothing to do with the development of the software. So, with that in mind…

Scrivener is powerful, flexible, and versatile software used by authors, screenwriters, academics, lawyers, clinicians and other writers around the world. It is great value at the price it sells. However, if it does not offer the functions you need, don’t use it.

While Scrivener does offer some flexibility when preparing e-books, it offers this as an “extra” not as the main purpose of the program. It sounds like you are looking for an ePub compiler rather than a writing program. In that case, Scrivener is probably not what you need.

Note also that the developers offer a very generous 30 day trial (that’s 30 days of actual use, not 30 calendar days) so there is plenty of time to evaluate the software prior to purchase.


The following comments are a response to the tone and content of previous posts. These are my opinions, offered as feedback in the hope of more constructive future conversations.

We are generally a friendly bunch here on the L&L forums, and we like people to post their questions, stories, problems and solutions. So I say with some sadness that I, like the previous respondents in this thread, also found your posts to be aggressive. We all have days when we come across in ways we do not intend, I trust that was the case for you and that your frustration with the software was unintentionally carried over to your responses to other people.

Regardless of how frustrated you are with either the software or other people, your comments about Stephen Fry were not appropriate in this forum. Please remember to be respectful of others in your posts, it is one of the few rules of these forums.

Shirozaemon, we operate a fairly open forum here. People can come in and criticise the software, and we take what they say into account. But we do have a few rules, and you’ve violated a number of them. As has been said before, there is no excuse for homophobic slurs, or denigrating individuals for being who they are, in any situation whatsoever, let alone on a forum meant to be discussing solutions to using writing software. I’m not saying the snipe about you maybe being a troll was deserved, maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but your responses from that point after were completely out of line. Even if you did not come here with the intention to troll, that is what you eventually ended up doing. Case closed.

If you need help, I suggest using our tech support e-mail address, where also we request you keep conversation civil. If they cannot help you find out how to fix the problem, then let us know what can be fixed or made better. That’s how this process works. Yelling won’t make it go any faster. Thank you.