two small editor wishes

Hi there,

I know, I’m a new user and directly having a wishlist, yeah, well, so you see I’m already using scrivener :slight_smile:

  1. It is VERY disturbing that SHIFT+TAB doesn’t re-indent. Standard behaviour IMHO. I needed to copy&paste to an editor, do a global shift+tab and re-copy&paste back to scrivener.

  2. Does a Paste as Plain-Text exist? I mean paste without any formatation?

thanks and cu

What do you mean by “re-indent”?
Decreasing the indent? That’s Ctrl Shift Q, but you can assign another shortcut to it
Backspace will remove tabs, one by one, if that’s what you mean.
Unlike in plain text editors, Scrivener does not allow you to select multiple paragraps, then hit Shift Tab to remove the leading tabs. Is that what you meant?

  1. Pasting as plain text, without any formatting - I agree, that would be nice to have.
    As a work-around, you could
    a) copy as plain text (freeware tools)
    b) paste into a plain text editor first (tons of freeware out there), then take it from there into Scrivener.

Yes, decreasing the ident like in a normal text/code-editor.

Yes exactly. I’m converting some of my notes I wrote in a text-editor and they have all one or two tabs for structuring. I had to remove the idents in a text-editor before pasting it in scrivener.

It’s simply unusual for me, and all text-processors I know off act this way. Tab and Shift+Tab are really handy.

That’s exactly what I did. Not a big fuss, would only be nice to have it in scrivener instead, just like Shift+Tab.

You can paste as plain-text with the Edit/Paste and Match Style menu command, or Ctrl-Shift-V. I’m not sure if I follow the bit on indents, but if these are tabs and you no longer want them, you could search and replace them out of the document. Easiest way to do that is select one of the tabs with shift arrow and then copy and paste it into the Ctrl-F window.

The editor isn’t really designed with code editing in mind, so tab based shifting isn’t something commonly needed. Indenting on the ruler is how this is typically done. Same as in Word.

Then I might have found a bug…

Please try this out:

  1. Please select and copy a thread-title and some text underneath like:

e.g. But not this one, grab it from a thread so to have different formats.

  1. Then go over to Scrivener and add a new text.

  2. Now paste this normally ctrl+v

  3. You say: “Oh no, that’s not what I wanted!” and ctrl+a and del all

  4. Now you do a ctrl+shift+v and the text is pasted differently. It’s bold and has the wrong size.

  5. Now create an new text and directly do a ctrl+shift+v. You’ll see (at least that’s what happens to me) a correctly pasted plain text.

So, once you pasted the wrong way the text-node is burned.

That would remove the tabs globally. The standard way I know off is that a Tab inserts an indent and shift+tab removes the left tab. I always worked like this.
BUT… I did a quick check in Libre Office and it shocked me to death that Libre didn’t behave as I expected :open_mouth: That reminds me of how seldom I use Office to write. I mostly type my text in a text-editor like notepad++ or sublime.

Oh well, I’ve gotten so accustomed to this feature that I didn’t even realize that this a coding specific feature :blush: (But a really nice one even for writing normal text :wink:)

Yeah. :slight_smile: That whole tab/shift-tab thing is really more of a coder’s tool than a word processing tool. Mainly because, like I said, tabs—that is the actual \t character itself, is not typically used in word processing unless you are laying out tabular data or keeping some field:value rows lined up nicely, like in some of the non-fiction templates. In coding tabs as characters are naturally extremely important, and can even be a part of the syntax. So it only makes sense for Notepad++ and other such to have tab shifting.

Thanks for the pointer on the empty line retaining formatting characteristics. That probably shouldn’t happen as you say. If a line is zeroed out, formatting codes should be cleaned up (and thus revert to default), even if only to cut back on invisible code clutter.

Instead of selecting all and deleting after the accidental paste, just use Undo (Ctrl+Z). That will remove the formatting as well.

Of course, but you can only do an Undo directly after the paste, which makes it dangerous in some cases.

ctrl+a + del should get rid of any formatting imho.

Well, it isn’t reasonable to suggest that it will get rid of all formatting, otherwise when you start typing there would be no parameters with which to show your text. At the very least you would want some sort of font declaration and basic paragraph parameters. The question is which. The problem with deleting the parameters you were using and going back to the application default is that this isn’t how the editor fundamentally works. The default format is something that is initialised in the document when you create it. From that point onward it has nothing to do with the document. Here is a basic example, say you are typing in a section title. You set up a 16pt bold font and start typing, but you don’t like the name. So you Shift-Home,Backspace to start over. Should the font revert to 12pt Whatever at this point? Should you be forced to go through the steps in setting up the title formatting again?

We think not. So deleting the text of formatted range does not immediately delete the formatting as you might very well wish to correct the text within the design parameters you were working with. However, you don’t want empty formatting containers just laying around in the file. So what should happen is once you make some move to leave the confines of a formatting container, if that container has no text in it, then it will be deleted. So in the above example, what should happen if you Shift-Home,backspace is you’ll get title formatting if you start typing again, but if you cursor out of the line and then come back, the special formatting will be gone and it will revert to the formatting around the line.

So, if you don’t want title formatting any more it’s very easy to cancel the formatting. Just UpArrow,DownArrow.

All right, so coming back to your suggestion, there isn’t really a difference between Ctrl-A,backspace and Shift-Home,backspace in the eyes of the program. They are both selections that have been deleted and thus follow the rules of retaining formatting so long as the cursor doesn’t leave the boundaries of the invisible formatting container.

What is broken right now is that this isn’t working. If you bold a line and start typing, then delete all text and arrow out of the line, when you come back it is still bold. Likewise, if you leave an empty document and come back, any formatting changes you made should be reverting to default (and in fact, technically the RTF file should be deleted if you leave an empty document laying around, so in fact the file would be recreated if you start typing). But that isn’t working correctly right now and that is the problem.

Just wanted to make sure we were clear on what we were saying. The fix will mean formatting is honoured until you leave the container in any way. It won’t mean that formatting is deleted immediately when the last character in a formatting range is deleted.

I don’t follow your objection here. I think undo is the appropriate response to an accidental formatted paste when you mean to instead plain-text paste. What is dangerous about this? Ctrl-A,backspace seems way more dangerous to me. And it only works if working on a brand new document.

Wow, I didn’t realize such a small point could be so fruitful :wink:

I would presume the default settings I set before pasting.

Should it really be deleted? If I had done some formatting defined but no text written, shouldn’t this count as content, too, so not deleting the file?

Now this is something definitely important to know and understand and I surely didn’t realize that this is the way it was meant to work.

But what if I do a wrong paste and leave it like this for know, thinking that I can fix this later, then work some on different files and then come back to …? select all and delete…

If the file isn’t being used, then yes it should be deleted to keep the docs folder clean and reduce overall file usage overhead. This is especially important with people who are networking their projects as files are an expensive transaction in networking terms. Empty files are a waste of that expense.

But on your second point, that seems to contradict what you are otherwise wanting: formatting is default in cases of empty files. There will be a way to retain formatting in an empty file, mainly for purposes of document templates, which are not yet implemented anyway, as an optional command you can use on the file. So you’ll have options if you really do want to set up an empty file with formatting.

I guess in that scenario I always use Documents/Convert/Formatting to Default Text Style. I use that command more than Paste and Match Style, anyway, because it respects inline formatting.

Documents > Convert > Formatting to Default Text Style seems the solution here; or, if it’s in a longer document and you don’t want to convert other text in it, you could use the copy and paste ruler/font options to update the formatting. Or you could select and cut the text you want to reformat, backspace to the previous paragraph (since that’s the formatting you’d have originally gotten with Paste and Match Style) and then hit enter and use PaMS to get the correct formatting. (That’s really a lot faster to do than it is to explain–really, if you select up to the end of the previous paragraph before the copy/delete, this is no different than the Select-All-and-Delete method.) I think there are a handful of rational options for this case.

–ah, Ioa got here first, but I’ll leave this post anyway to feel like I wasn’t wasting my time. :slight_smile:

Yes, I understand. If a file is empty it isn’t created when left empty. So no formatting would survive.
What I meant was, that if I set the settings like font and so on by hand they COULD be kept as they were created on purpose. But then it would be easy to just type a bla to prevent it from being deleted, or use templates once this feature is implemented or… yeah, many ways to do things in scrivener.

I will surely adapt scriveners way of doing things very quickly. I’m quick at finding bugs and also quick at working around them if need be :slight_smile:

Good information!

btw, I really start relying on scrivener. I started using it for my project documentation, then for my novel and now as project-binder for my website-job I got now. Really cool :slight_smile:

@MimeticMouton: Never enough information, never :wink: