where are the ruler settings for bullet lists controlled?

so i reset the F-12 OPTIONS (to default) and opened a blank project and when i hit the editor button to start a bullet list, there was no indentation.

did i accidentally create a setting where i nixed the indentation? is there a place where i control the ruler settings for a document or a preset that affects the entire app? (i hope not actually)

i closed the app and restarted and i got indentation back with bullet point indentation… is that an explainable behavior?

maybe a bug. i’m running v. 1.8.6



as an update, here is a screenshot of my problem… gah! please halp.

i’m really the kind of person that likes to read about how something works rather than try to noodle around and figure it out but without further recourse, that’s what i’ve been forced to do. and i figured it out.

it can be considered a bug and/or just an undesirable behavior in the app. several issues that, when combined obfuscated what the heck was actually going on. my findings:

  1. as someone told me elsehwere, there is no user adjustable ruler settings PER SE for bullet indentations… buuuut:

  2. the primary indentation for a bullet list is derived from the FIRST LINE margin in ruler. this works fine with the DEFAULT where the first line is indented and then the rest of the paragraph is further left of that. doesn’t work so well with my settings where i did not want a first line indent. i suspect that it would be even worse for a hanging first line. but at this point, we can consider this non ideal but maybe not on the level of a bug.

  3. the secondary indentation seems to be hard coded. so regardless of where the first line indent is set in the ruler, the secondary indentation will just zip to a fixed value on the ruler. not ideal - in the best implementation, it should be an OFFSET from the PRIMARY BULLET INDENTATION.

  4. related to the above, if we’re in a secondary indentation and we create another secondary bullet but BACKSPACE in order to get pack to the primary bullet indentation level, if the first line indentation was changed in the ruler, we do NOT go back to primary bullet indentation that you would get if you activated a bullet list from a normal paragraph. instead, we are taken to a HARD CODED primary indentation which, if the ruler was not changed, would be the same as the first line indent. BUT, if you changed the first line indent at all, now you’ll have the indentation of bullet lists on the primary level in two places - one derived from the ruler (if you invoke a bullet list from a normal paragraph) and another that is HARD CODED and different from the ruler setting if you changed the ruler (if you backspace from a secondary bullet indentation).

how scrivener SHOULD behave:

  1. i think it’s fine that bullet lists don’t have explicit ruler settings. i’d argue it’s BETTER this way because it reduces needless complexity.

  2. but bullet list indent should be defined as an OFFSET from the normal paragraph margin… NOT the first line indent.

  3. secondary, tertiary, etc. indents in the bullet list (when you hit tab to indent further) again should be defined as an OFFSET from the primary indent (which as i argued above should itself be defined as an offset from the non first line paragraph margin setting in the ruler).

  4. backspacing from a nested bullet should take me out to the offset value defined as the level above. it shouldn’t be hard coded.

whew. alright. glad i got that figured out.

so i would argue that this is something that should be addressed and, imo, fixed.

but it’s not a huge deal.

in the meantime, i think the best way for me to use scrivener is to not futz with the defaults. just use the program with the predicted default settings and hard coded or not, i shouldn’t run into any issues.

BTW, if you’ll permit me to say so, i’m not a stupid guy. i do computer graphics for a living with maya, do a bit of coding, regularly read stuff beyond a grade school level.

but to my eyes, man, scrivener does have parts that are way more complicated than it seems it should be.


here is the screenshot of the project that helped me get to the bottom of this: