I suspect the following is another Windows v. Mac thing:
I find that I have a tendency to accidentally move a lot of stuff I’m working on to the trash. Unfortunately, I typically only realize this retrospectively – so I can’t give you a full UX walk-through of what I’m doing (promise I’ll try and record it the next time).
That said, I was wondering if there was any chance that – in a future version – a toggle might be added to enable/disable a warning that, though pressing delete, you are about to move binder contents to the trash.
Thanks for the consideration.
I don’t think a confirmation for this would be great, seeing as it is essentially only a move operation (it’s not like the documents are being deleted). However, the Delete key should require the Control key modifier so that it is more difficult to move things to the Trash by mistake (we used to have the same problem on the Mac, but these days “move to trash” uses Cmd-Delete rather than just Delete, and now no one accidentally moves stuff to the Trash). This is already on the list for the release version, so for 1.0 “move to Trash” should require the very deliberate Ctrl-Delete combination.
All the best,
Perfect solution Keith. That sounds great.
I totally missed that on the list.
Hey KB, can you please at least make this a toggled option between needing a Ctrl-Del and a Del. I can’t think of another Windows program that uses a modifier for delete. They all just have an option to remove the “confirm before delete” pop-up.
I for one would find Ctrl-Del going against a decade of muscle memory.
From my experience with supporting the Mac version over the past five years, that would be a no, sorry. One of our biggest support questions until 2.0 was, “Argh I accidentally deleted my work!” (even though it was just moved to the Trash folder). Even with a confirmation that could be ticked off and never shown again, too many users would say, “Don’t show this again”, forget about it, and then e-mail support. It took me a while to get used to cmd-delete on the Mac version, but not too long and now it feels natural.
All the best,
One: I doubt you will find it all that onerous to have to hold down CTRL to move documents to the trash once you experience the change; it’s much more of a pain to discover days later that one of 80 of your novel’s scenes has disappeared, only to find it in the trash, with no indication as to it’s proper position among the other documents. Accidentally hitting Delete or Backspace while in the binder happens fairly often for certain fumble-fingered types like myself.
Two: A decade of muscle memory? You young whipper-snappers. There will come a day when adapting your muscle memory to new forms of interaction with long-time interfaces will be an irritating but regular occurrence. Shortly thereafter, both your muscle and your memory will begin to fail.
I take the point re learning, but you really shouldn’t need to look something like “how to work the delete button” in a user guide up when you first start using a piece of software.
That sounds more like an reason to not offer a “confirm delete” toggle than to change how people work. Especially as the delete and Enter keys are right by each other allowing a pretty smooth roll across both.
Still, I understand KB’s motives.
In the interest of full disclosure: You should ignore me on all counts when talking about the binder / trash file. I’m not a fan of the trash can in the same way I don’t like the recycle bin on my desktop. I don’t like clutter. If I’ve deleted something, I want it gone.
So I always delete and then go straight to the trash and click empty trash. In other words, I don’t seem to be using the trash folder like other people do. So my opinion should be ignored.
The “Trash” icon in the toolbar should make that a moot point. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t entirely disagree - I used to like having the Delete key on its own move things to the Trash, but Cmd-Delete took me very little time to get used to, and it saved us answering three support questions a day (not an exaggeration).
Maybe what you really need is a system-wide macro for “Yes I really want this file gone so obliterate the thing in the metaphorical computer incinerator!”
…That sounded smart-mouthed but I didn’t mean it that way. I like shortcuts for emptying trash, too.
On the other hand, half the time I’m using Windows on a VM and need to use two buttons to delete anything anywhere anyhow. Any time.
Surely any part of the interface that creates polar opinions should be subject to a toggle option?
But I do understand your reasoning.
As a (slightly mischievous) aside, if you are trying to make a familiar interface for windows users, did you ever consider renaming the Trash folder the Recycle Bin for WinScriv?
Not necessarily, and certainly not for something like this where there is a support element. The developers have to make a decision sometimes, and this one is based on several years’ of experience with users panicking because they thought they had lost their work.
I have no strong opinions either way there.
I’ve had the right amount of coffee this morning and will be less needlessly argumentative today.
Yeah, same here. If I could use an rm command inside a Scrivener project, I would.