026 ff and tt treated as one character

Hi, I’ve been using the betas for a while but this is the first bug I’ve had. I’m not sure if this is going to be of much use to you but here goes…

I have one scene that contains some text in italics. If I type ff or tt and then use the arrow keys to move the cursor through those letters, either from the left of them or from the right, it will not stop in between the two characters, it just jumps from one side of the pair to the other.

However, if I move the cursor from the right of the two characters to the left with one key press, the cursor clearly thinks it is in between them because pressing delete will delete the right character of the pair (I know because a second press of delete deletes the next character to the right, not the first of the pair of 'f’s or 't’s). I hope that was followable.

This only happens with pairs of lower case 'f’s or 't’s, no other letter, number or symbol is affected and it just happens in the text that is in italic (Palatino Lynotype since you ask). There is one other thing: it only occurs in that scene. I have not been able to replicate in any other scene or in any other projects.

As I said at the top, I’m not sure if this is of any help as it seems that it cannot be replicated but I thought I’d let you know just in case.

Keep up the good work.

Trying to replicate this but no such luck. Sorry. Did you paste the text in Scrivener that you are experiencing this problem with?

No, I didn’t paste the text. I simply mistyped father as ffther and when I went back to correct it I noticed the cursor jumped the two 'f’s. I got curious and eventually found it was only f and t in italic in that one scene that were affected.

However, after reading your post I tried copying a paragraph of the offending italic text to another scene and it seemed to carry the error with it, ie ff and tt were affected the same. The same happened if I pasted that text into a new project.

Then things got a little weirder. I went to a different scene in the original project and tried to replicate the issue - just I had done previously with no success - by making a paragraph italic and typing ff or tt. This time however it did happen in the new text - but not everywhere. To give you a few examples: if I stick a couple of 'f’s in front of the word ‘arm’ or ‘back’ the error does not occur but if they go in front of ‘cut’ or ‘down’ it does happen.

It doesn’t end there though. It seems that if there are two 'f’s in front of a word that starts with t it will ‘group’ those three letters together. The same does not happen though if two 't’s precede a word beginning with f. In addition if two 'f’s are typed between two 'l’s the two 'f’s and the second l act as one but it does not work with two 't’s, in that case it is just the 't’s that are treated as a pair.

You want more? Okay. If I type two 't’s after a word ending with t the existing t gets ‘paired’ with the first of the two 't’s that I have added.

I’m sure that there are other variations but it all seems rather inconsistent. By the way, all this happens in full screen as well as editor mode.

For the record the text is Palatino Linotype, Italic, 12 pt, 1.0 (single) line spacing with a 15pt first line indent, justified (it happens whatever the justification though) and with 50pt editor margins.

I don’t know if it’s possible with Windows and that font, but it sounds to me like you’ve got ligatures turned on.


Yes, ligatures were the first thing that came to mind, especially with the ff involved, and I checked the character map for Palatino Lintype which contains these ligatures: ff fi fl ffi ffl ft and st.

The lack of a tt ligature and the fact that typing fi, fl, ffi, ft or st did not result in the same effect made me think maybe it was not a ligature issue. That and the fact that the letters are clearly not a single glyph when deleting them but only appear to be because the cursor will not place in between them but still takes two arrow key presses to truly rather than visually move past them. Add to that the fact that the effect seems to be inconsistent as to when it happens (it happens to ff in front of ‘ten’ but not ‘team’ for example). That said, I’m not an expert on ligatures, so that maybe that’s how it works but it still does not explain why I could not replicate it in new text in another Scrivener project (with the same font).

I tried some other fonts in the original text and it did not happen with Times New Roman, which only has a couple of ligatures, but it did happen with Calibri which has five. I then pasted that text into another project and tried Times and Calibri: again nothing with Times but it did happen in Calibri but not in the same way as in the original project. I tried Palatino in the pasted text in the new project and it did happen to ff and tt sometimes but, again not in the same way with the same words as in the original project. It still does not happen with new text in a new project.

So in retrospect I think you may well be right that it is to do with ligatures but the inconsistency between instances and projects makes me wonder if there is an error in the way that they are handled.