Again, if you read the entire thread you will see that Mark and I have been having a very lengthy and detailed conversation, in which Section Types and Layouts have been explained repeatedly and in depth. It seemed to me more appropriate to answer the specific question rather than diving (again) into the details of the process.
Am experimenting (with a backup, of course) to see where I am still going wrong. I hope that anyone would agree that making Section Types and Section Layouts work in this was is not intuitive… until it is 
Good. Thanks. Taking this one step at a time, am I right in thinking that there are two stages to doing this; and that they are both (only) in Project > Project Settings with ‘Section Types’ selected top left:
- in the ‘Section Types’ tab remove (for neatness sake) everything that may already be there by default and then add (in my case) ‘Folders’ and ‘Notes’
- in the ‘Default Types by Structure’ tab ensure that the ‘Folders’ Section Type is selected to ‘All Folders’, and the ‘Notes’ Section Type is selected for ‘All files’. What do I do for ‘All file groups’? Or do I need to use the ‘plus’ at bottom left to take care of the Nesting of Folders do to (in my case) ‘Level 4 folders and deeper’? I suspect not because we’re relying on a string (‘!!!9999!!!’) and not the structure to rebuild the hierarchy on re-import?
Again, taking this one step at a time, I now move on to File Compile.
In the right hand column (list of items to Compile) I make sure that each entity (‘Title’ in the left column there (ie in the right hand column of that list)) has correctly assigned to it the correct Section Type. That will either be ‘Folders’ or Notes’. Yes?
I have three questions here, please:
- am I right that in the drop-down for each 'entity’s Section Type I should (must?) use not ‘Structure-based’ (top division) but simply ‘Folders’ or ‘Notes’ as either of the two Section Types which I have just defined appears in the second and third (‘Default Subdocument Type’)?
- can I automate this process of setting Section Types: I notice that - although I can Cmnd+SHIFT (etc) all Folders or all Notes, I can’t set their types at once?
- what is indicated by a Section Type on the right which is in italics as opposed to roman?
When I know I’m doing this correctly, I’ll have fewer variables for the assignment of Section Layouts. Thanks!
When you say regardless of their position, I hear an excellent reason not to use compile by structure. You can give a section type (manually) to the documents it fits and no others. I use five kinds of documents at the same level within chapters, for instance. Those section types are Epigraph, Setting, and three kinds of Scene. I’m writing fiction, of course, but I’d need a very good reason to get to 4 levels in the Binder.
Thank you, @drmajorbob.
As you’ll see from (earlier in) this thread - and it’s a monster one, where I’m so grateful for all the help and patience I’ve received - I’m working with a (non-fiction) document/project on music theory which needs several top level folders (harmony, rhythm, form etc) many of which need both Notes and sub-folders ‘underneath’ them, such as ‘tonal harmony’, ‘atonal harmony’; and ‘form > fugue’, ‘form > sonata form’ etc.
In the Binder (as opposed to Resources) I only need two types of Structure: a Folder and a Note. As I find my way through this aspect of Scrivener, I can see for sure the wisdom of avoiding Compiling by Structure!
You do not need complex hierarchy in the Section Types because you don’t need it in the output document.
“All file groups” can be either Notes or Folders, whichever makes sense for you. Ultimately it doesn’t matter anyway, since you’re using the string to re-define the structure on import.
Using the “Structure-based” settings is how you automate the assignments, and that’s what you are proposing to do in the Project Settings pane above.
When the Section Type is in italics, that is an automatically-generated assignment. With the settings you describe above, those should come out the way you want. Fix any exceptions by hand.
I don’t. In this particular case, there are many many individual items, but only two types. That’s exactly the kind of situation where assigning defaults can be useful.
Thanks for helping me get this totally clear step-by-step.
This sample/template file is how I have it set up so far.
Four level test file.zip (88.9 KB)
Does it look right to you, please @kewms?
Sorry; I don’t really understand! Pragmatically, I see I can just ignore “All file groups”. But what is a “file Group” and what should I set it to?
When is a hierarchy considered ‘complex’? Mine go four levels down in this project. Despite that, I should not be using Project > Project Settings > Default Types by Structure > ‘Add level.’ (bottom right)?
So in fact I should use 'structure-based assignments as here, at File > Compile; and when everything is in itals I’m ready to move on to Section Layouts:
Your demo project looks fine.
A file group is a text document with child documents. So it’s a “folder equivalent” that isn’t actually a folder.
For this particular purpose, you are using the same formatting for Notes and Folders and so it doesn’t matter which Section Type you assign to file groups. In the general case, it would depend on the function that file groups serve in the manuscript.
You do not need to Add Levels because you are not going to change the formatting of a Note (or Folder) based on its level. “Complexity” is a matter of degree: having four different levels of Section Types is more complex than having two.
That’s what I would do, yes.
1 Like
Thanks very much for taking the time to look at my demo project. Yes. Everything is crystal clear from your answers.
Now on to what I hope will be the final stages: ‘Assigning Section Layouts’.
I obviously understand all of this a lot better now; and - I hope - only have two questions:
- can I assign the same Section Layout to both Folder and Note?
- which Section Layout will be most useful in revealing (= helping me understand) both that all the content/text/inline graphics etc has/have been exported as it/they should; and make it clear where I should best place and trial the divider string, ‘!!!9999!!!’
Yes, both can (and probably should, for this purpose) use the same one. That’s why I said the Section Type assignments aren’t that important.
If it were me, I’d use “Text Section with Heading.”
1 Like
So now it looks like this:
Now I duplicate the format and edit it so as to allow me to add the divider string in Title Options as here, don’t I?
And there (Title Options) I simply add !!!9999!!! (my chosen divider string)?
Then compile ignoring the Java warnings…?
Yep. That’s it.
(And the character count police should really just use my average count for the thread.)
1 Like
Thanks, @kewms!
Yes - at last - it has worked. And, thanks to you, I understand why and how.
Three quick easy questions, though, please:
- this has been such a long and convoluted process… I’m right in thinking that we don’t expect any kind of hierarchy to have been preserved, do we: it’s now up to me to re-arrange notes within their folders, isn’t it?
- I noticed that after the split none of the documents (Folders or Notes) retained the split string, ‘!!!9999!!!’… I did not need to delete them; is that what you’d expect, please?
- The Folders as imported have a small white (‘note-like’?) icon at their bottom left. As in this example (where you’ll see deliberately altered/misspellt text to allow me to check that LibreOffice has done what all this is about, and made some changes which persisted
Yes, that’s correct.
I wouldn’t say I expected it, but I’m not surprised and definitely not concerned.
The icon indicates that the Folder contains a sub-document. That’s expected behavior.
Thanks!
== snipped ==
I see. I guess I’m curious as to why would it be there only after the re-import; but not there at all in the original (Scrivener) document?
It makes sense as a ‘badge’. But I’ve never see that before.
In fact I checked the original Project - for which this is a test file - and there are no such icons bottom right (sorry, I wrote ‘left’ last time 
) even though all the Folders also do contain sub-documents?
Ah, sorry, I was typing faster than I was thinking. That icon indicates that the folder document itself contains text.
1 Like
No problem!
You’ve alerted me to something that I didn’t know about, and am not sure I understand.
Are there two types of Folder:
- one which contains only ‘child’ Notes, and
- one which itself is composed of Notes/Text
?
If so, I think I really want only the first kind. How do I achieve that, please?
(Presumably this has happened because of the conversion I did of documents to Folders?
By not writing stuff in the Folder document in the Binder.
2 Likes
Is this the result of the round trip process, or the conversion of files which really should have been Folders not showing up as such when I re-imported them?
What’s the best way to get things back to normal, please - apart from recreating all my Folders as just Folders after import, which of course I would do if necessary?
It’s the result of the Import/Split command encountering:
<split string>
Some text.
<split string>
I would not expect the split based on a delimiter string to successfully differentiate between files and folders.
The best way to fix it, as previously discussed, is to have the imported structure in one pane and the original structure in another, and tweak the imported structure as needed until it matches.
1 Like