Bear for iOS

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1

In recent posts, Keith and other people in the know have indicated that the development of Scrivener for Mac and Scrivener for iOS is being managed so that Scrivener for Windows has the opportunity to catch up in terms of its feature set. If there is a significant number of Scrivener for Windows users, this of course makes good sense for the company, even though it may alienate and frustrate users of Apple devices.

Having taken Keith’s advice into consideration, and not wishing for my working life to be hamstrung by the buying decisions of other people, I have recently started to test other writing applications, despite being a Scrivener user since 2007.

My writing needs and devices have changed since 2007, and I increasingly find that I spend more time writing on iOS devices than on a MacBook Pro. Today I no longer have a desktop computer.

In terms of using iOS devices, I have found that Bear app is fabulous. Syncing requires no user input, and Apple’s Handoff feature is a joy. For me, this reduces a lot of the friction caused when working on Scrivener for iOS and Scrivener for Mac and relying on Dropbox for syncing. I still use Scrivener for Mac for manipulating and editing text, so there is some friction in moving text from Bear to Scrivener on my MacBook Pro. That said, the friction is far less than the friction caused by using Dropbox as a syncing platform.

So, for me, the current solution is to write in Bear on my Mac and iOS devices, and then to copy to Scrivener for Mac when I need to do some heavy lifting.

Bear is, of course, only a note-taking app, but the interface is incredibly intuitive and liberating to work with, and it is entirely free of any need to satiate Windows users. The design language is just very Apple, and any Apple user will know what a difference that makes to how you work and how you write. Without thinking, my text is available everywhere; easily organised with just a few hashed keywords.

I am aware that my needs are not other people’s needs, and that my solution will probably not work for some people. However, for anyone who is frustrated by the current development timelines of Scrivener for Apple devices and the need to use Dropbox, I heartily recommend looking at Bear and seeing whether it can fit more easily and more successfully into your writing life.

It is important to remember that you can sync Scrivener using iCloud, but only on Mac devices. So syncing via iCloud is possible for the architecture that supports Scrivener for Mac. Perhaps the underlying problem rests with iOS rather than iCloud, but come what may, other applications sync beautifully using iCloud and make writing for Apple-only users much easier to deal with.

2

I have no clue why you would suggest that the current development status of Mac Scrivener would alienate or frustrate users. It is rock solid, not short of any features. I for one am very satisfied.

The current synching through Dropbox works just fine, and given L&L’s firm warnings on every other cloud synching option I also have no clue why anyone would choose to risk their precious work. The risks and the reasons have been clearly outlined every time an armchair developer brings up the ‘other programs synch’ bleat.

I also do not understand why some choose ‘kludge’ solutions with 3rd party text programs given how rock solid Scrivener iOS is, but each to their own I guess.

3

Topic split and moved. Advertisements for other applications do not belong in the iOS Scrivener support forum.

Since we do not announce release dates, I’m not sure what basis you have for drawing any conclusions whatsoever about the iOS Scrivener or Mac Scrivener development timelines.

Katherine

4

“…there won’t be any major announcements or releases related to iOS or macOS this year” – Keith, June 2020

https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/features-on-scrivener-ios-equal-to-mac/50304/26

Just working on Keith’s advice. And grateful for it.

5

Exactly what is it you miss in iOS Scrivener that you have in Bear, apart from iCloud syncing?

6

@Login I find your interpretation of the state of development of Scrivener quite puzzling, and I have to say I don’t share it at all. I tried Bear for other reasons, and intensely disliked it. I couldn’t wait to get it off my system(s). Like others who have written above, I have no particular frustrations or dissatisfactions with Scrivener, and I find myself wondering if many people have. We are all subject to the False Consensus Effect, and it is normal for us to think that our views are more representative than they actually are. You are obviously conscious of this because you observe that “I am aware that my needs are not other people’s needs, and that my solution will probably not work for some people.” But given the first part of that sentence, I would have thought it was logical to assume that your solution will not necessarily work for anyone else at all, rather than that it might not work for “some” people. In short, I suspect your feelings of frustration are less widely shared than you might think, and your solution may therefore be even less attractive than you think. I am speculating, of course, but the situation looks rather different from where I stand.

I hope this does not come across as critical. I just feel the need to say “sorry, but I do see things differently”. Each to their own, and if you have found a workflow that works for you, well and good. I think all of us grapple with some limitation of the software we use, but those limitations are not the same for each of us.

Good luck!

7

Hello, lunk and mbbntu.

Scrivener for iOS is my favourite writing interface (although I also need the Mac version’s power at certain times).

I never take offence at what people say or think about me: everyone is entitled to think what they want, and I am entirely happy in my own faulty skin. I also don’t have entrenched views and am always happy to have to rethink about my thoughts if they are challenged by well-posited views. I am already richer for the time you two have taken to engage with this thread.

There are people on the forum who have outlined the issues they have with Dropbox, iCloud, and hoping for iOS updates. Also people hoping for Android and other versions of Scrivener. In other online and offline encounters, I have also met people with the same frustrations and hopes. Haven’t got any kind of formal count, but I think the majority of iOS Scrivener users I have come across are keen to have iCloud support and incremental updates. Who doesn’t like the option to have improved functionality?

I bought a Mac in 2007 primarily to use Scrivener. I bought an iPad when iOS Scrivener was in development solely to be able to use Scrivener on the go. Apple devices and Scrivener go hand in hand for me. And I have ploughed on using Scrivener for Mac and iOS since launch.

It was only Keith’s posts (as above and elsewhere) that made me realise that iOS and macOS are being constrained because of compatibility with Windows. I know Keith says he is working on updates, but if they aren’t coming until at least next year as Keith stated, I thought I would just take a look at other apps that are getting more regular updates.

iCloud has got me used to having everything everywhere without any effort: emails, photos, passwords, bookmarks, books, music, etc. Scrivener is the one app I use that falls outside of the ease of use offered by iCloud.

So, I tried Bear and Ulysses and iA Writer and Pages etc, and I found that the “it just works” nature of Bear fits well with my needs, as a companion app to Scrivener for Mac. It is not ideal, but it is, in my weeks of use, better for me than the grit and lint of Dropbox.

If Keith releases updates next year or whenever that change the landscape again, I will happily switch back to iOS Scrivener (which I still have and can use when I want).

In another post, Keith explained his rationale for Scrivener, comparing it to Xcode. That’s a very good analogy, I think. Thirteen years ago, I needed Xcode Scrivener, when I had an iMac and was writing in a way that I no longer do. Today, I only need Xcode Scrivener occasionally. Most of the time, I just need iCloud simplicity, which is something I tried to outline in my original post.

So Keith encouraged me to think about my needs, and without his posts, I would probably just be carrying on as I had been.

I posted about my experiences in the hope that an idea shared might help others who have unequivocally stated that they have issues with Dropbox and iOS / Android development. Not a big deal. Not an advert for Bear. Not a slight against Scrivener for iOS or anyone who is happy using Dropbox. We’re all different. All have different needs. There’s no right or wrong. One person’s way of working is no better or no worse than anyone else’s. Again, I tried to make that point in my original post.

So there’s no agenda here. Bear offers a very slick, very Apple way of working that just fits more seamlessly into the whole way that Apple devices work. Keith has a clear need to look after his Windows users, and I absolutely endorse the idea that he should do whatever he judges is best for the company and the integrity of his app. He says that does impact on Apple users. I think it makes sense for me to see if I can work more efficiently until things can move again for Scrivener for iOS. I believe I am in complete harmony with Keith’s position, and I am grateful to him for being so candid.

Got to say, three people have had a huge impact on the work I have done and the enjoyment (success?) I have had from using technology: Steve Jobs, Jonny Ive, and Keith. I will always be in awe of Keith’s work. But Scrivener and I are a little out of sync at the moment (as is undeniably the case for SOME other people), and I just shared a solution that I have found to keep me more in sync with Scrivener for Mac than the sync / working requirements of Scrivener for iOS. No harm done here. No toys thrown out of prams. No puerile threat to walk away from Scrivener if I don’t get updates I hope for. Just a suggestion that might help some people who don’t like Dropbox to find a way to carry on working with Scrivener AND iCloud. Take it or leave it. For my post to be called an advertisement did bring a smile to my face: how easy it is to misconstrue or misunderstand. Words: they can let us down. :wink:

8

I understand where you are coming from, Login.

I also have been looking around to some other apps. I do write my scripts in Highland 2 now, which I love on the Mac, and is coming to iPad. (no ETA, but it has been working inside the company since August last year)

I still love and use Scrivener as the program for ally my brainstorms and research and planning before I go to Highland 2. I have been looking to Ulysses a bit, but haven’t tried it yet. Because it seems like it is being updated often, unlike Scrivener.

I still think Scrivener is great, but the Dropbox syncing which in my experience works slow (not the syncing itself, but the checking all the files, if you have big projects), feels antiquated if you have a lot of apps that work seamlessly through iCloud. Scrivener iOS hasn’t had a lot of updates since release. We don’t have a proper multi-window workflow, contextual menu’s, PencilKIT features, and lots of other things the updates in iOS have brought to other apps. I think the only big update we had on Scrivener iOS was Dark Mode. Even Keith himself has admitted that Scrivener iOS is due for an update.
I also understand that it’s a difficult problem to solve:
Scrivener has always been super powerful, and Keith had lofty goals for Scrivener iOS and he tried to hire developers to make it for years, until, a bit like with Scrivener on the Mac, he decided to do it himself. And there was no multi-window possible on iOS, so he made this probably a bit of a hack with Quick View, so we had a way of opening 2 windows inside a project at once. And now that iOS has it natively, probably it’s a lot harder for him to implement changes because he has made everything in his own way (as he needed) and it’s a lot harder to make changes.
A lot of iOS developers are struggling with finding a balance between using native features of the OS vs building your own things from scratch if the native API’s don’t give you what you want.

TDLR: Still love Scrivener and still my no.1 app, but annoyed with the slow pace of updates on iOS where the operating system has been having some very interesting developments the last years.

9

I constantly keep An eye open for apps that may help my work. I recently dumped Fantastcal and Calender 366 because I found BusyCal. I used Wunderlist as my to-do app for a long time but switched to 2Do a few years ago. And before iOS Scriv I used ’external sync’ with a few different iOS apps, but was never satisfied. I boight Storyist but never got to like its UI. I looked at Ulysses but don’t like markdown.

Then iOS Scriv was released. Yes! I was already using Dropbox so that was never an issue. And I have never had any problems whatsoever.

Yes, iCloud often works as expected, but not always. And last year iCloud stopped updating anything anywhere for me for more than 6 months (!) which made it completely useless. So I had to move everything out of iCloud and use other cloud services instead. Then it suddenly started working again.

I do use iCloud, but I never trust it to work. And I want to write with some kind of rich text, not markdown.

But you didn’t really answer my question. What is it that is missing in iOS Scriv apart from iCloud syncing?
And a second question: Yes, Bear seems to have automatic iCloud syncing (as part of an expensive subscription) but then you need to manually copy-paste from Bear to Scriv, right? In what way is that more simple than syncing from iOS Scrivener?

10

The key word in that excerpt is “major,” which neither you nor Keith has defined precisely. Your other posts suggest that you have interpreted it to mean no updates, which is not at all what he actually said.

The full context of Keith’s original post referred to the changes in the underlying Mac OS/iOS ecosystem, and the often misunderstood challenges of unifying an application as complex as Scrivener across the two platforms. Windows Scrivener compatibility aside, Apple is giving us plenty to do.

Katherine

11

I’m not a fan of subscriptions, but to call the Bear subscription expensive at 1.5$/month or 15$/year, one of the cheapest you’ll find, is stretching it.

I’ll bite for your question:

  • Support for the Apple Pencil
  • Contextual Menus
  • Better multitasking

and from Ulysses:

  • Grammar Style check (works with 3rd party software though, not native from the company itself - but it is integrated)
  • With it’s new dashboard, a lot better UI then Scrivener on the iPad, where the whole switching with the Inspector and the Binder has become really awful in my opinion, certainly on iPads with bigger screens.
  • Support for Keywords and more metadata (still wishing for Snapshots in Scrivener iOS)
  • Better multitasking
  • More integration with the system (extensions and siri shortcuts)

It’s the UI, metadata and better multitasking stuff that I miss the most in Scrivener iOS, just because it’s such a powerful app, and people who use it like to have a lot of power at the tip of their fingers.

12

Downloads Bear
Pokes at it for a bit

Ahem. Bear appears to be YAMBE (Yet Another Markdown Based Editor). Like Ulysses, it has a monolithic internal text store (syncable via iCloud), tagging, and its own flavour of Markdown.

Bear’s major advantage for working with Scrivener would appear to be the export to RTF capability, thus preserving formatting. Rather than copy-and-paste, one would export a Bear note to RTF, then import to Scrivener. One can even import RTFs, making it practical to use with Scrivener’s External Folder sync. These are distinct advantages compared to any other YAMBE I’ve tried on iOS.

OTOH, you will lose any Scrivener specific features such as styles in the round-trip. You will also lose things like font changes and size changes within your text. If it can’t be represented in Bear’s version of Markdown, it’s gone.

shrugs If the siren call of iCloud sings loud in your ears, or the more modern iOS features are must-haves right now, it’s not a bad choice.

13

While I have significant experience with iCloud and use iCloud with company work files due to its security, (one of only two cloud systems the company allows to be used for work), I would not at this time recommend iCloud for any mission critical synching between iOS/Mac and certainly not for complex containers such as a Scrivener project.

Dropbox, does work reliably and apart from a couple of (Apple introduced?) glitches has been rock solid with Scrivener projects. I have yet to see a technically supportable reason for not using Dropbox given by anyone looking for alternatives.

Yes, with a 2TB iCloud account, I’d love it if iCloud was a reliable option. At present it’s not and unless Apple make changes it looks like all the wishin’, and hopin’ (to quote a song) ain’t going to change that!

As for kludge solutions that might bring one or two ‘might be nice’ features I’m certainly not about to waste time/money/effort on alternatives when Mac/Win/iOS Scrivener plus Dropbox work a treat. I’ll (patiently?) wait for Keith to surprise us with new Scrivener iOS features.

14

I agree with you about iCloud – it’s bitten me more than once. I only have the free version and use it as little as I can.

Nonetheless, one person’s kludge is another’s godsend. If iOS Scrivener and/or Dropbox bothers a person enough to give up a lot of formatting options, and yet that person wants to edit their Mac or Windows Scrivener projects on iOS, Bear isn’t bad. Working with External Folder sync and RTF, however awkwardly, is outstanding. It’s nowhere near the hassle that Ulysses or iA Writer would be.

Would I personally use Bear? Heck, no. I have my problems with iOS Scrivener, but neither Dropbox nor lack of new iOS feature support is among them. In general the most reliable and feature-rich editor for a Scrivener project is… Scrivener. :smiley:

15

My thoughts:

  1. Scrivener = awesome
  2. Bear = okay, but is a subscription (yuck) and doesn’t have the power of Scrivener

While I’m disappointed with Scrivener for iOS’ lack of modern features like:

  1. context menus
  2. robust mouse support
  3. drag and drop
  4. iCloud syncing/Files integration
  5. Shortcuts integration
  6. multi window support

… I also like its power. This is the reason I bought Scrivener. If I didn’t need the power, I would’ve used a text editor like Bear. It comes down to that one question:
Do you need Scrivener’s power?
a) Yes
b) No

IF YES: use Scrivener on all platforms! Yes, it’s not the most modern on iOS. But those trade-offs are ones I’m willing to make.

IF NO: don’t use Scrivener at all, you’re wasting money on it. Use Bear/Ulysses if you like subscriptions and iA Writer if you don’t.

16

I refuse to decide what another “should” do. We’re all (or mostly all :smiley:) grown ups here. Yes, many prefer iOS Scrivener 's power to Bear’s more “modern” interface and syncing. I do, myself. But I can’t make that decision for someone else. What I can do is present the costs and benefits as I see them and let the users who read my posts decide for themselves.

$15 USD per annum v $20 USD one-time cost—that’s one piece of info. Which is a waste of money depends on how much value one places on background syncing (iCloud) and modern iPadOS features available now (mouse and Pencil support, et. al.) versus a more technically reliable sync (Dropbox) and support for many more Mac/PC Scrivener features. These are intangibles that each user must evaluate for themselves.

Would I choose Bear? No. Does that make anyone who disagrees with me wrong? No. Will I stop saying that Bear is an app to consider if one places more value on iCloud and newer iPadOS features right now than they do on iOS Scrivener’s feature set? No. Just because iOS Scrivener is right for me doesn’t mean that Bear isn’t right for the OP, @Login, or others who might read this thread.