Citation managers

[mledford313]

Hi All,

I’m writing a nonfiction book and need to incorporate footnotes. I used Zotero for my dissertation, but I can’t seem to 1) get the connector to add it to Scrivener, and 2) even if I did, it seems Zotero does not work as seamlessly with Scrivener as it does with Word.

Do you nonfiction writers find that one citation manager works better with Scrivener? If not, do you compile to Word and insert cites from Zotero? I could do that, but I prefer to do this painstaking part as I go instead of retrofitting the citations, if that makes sense. I’m willing to try another citation manager like Endnote if it works better with Scrivener than Zotero.

[nontroppo]

Bookends is, IMHO, the best citation manager on any OS or platform. Luckily for macOS users, that plaform is ours. First developend in 1984!!! It is still going strong with some of the most active developers I know. Jon & Serge develop macOS and iOS version that work seamlessly together. I often add references to my database when attending academic talks, and these are synced to my desktop when I need to write. Bookends has the most powerful database engine, allowing complex changes to thousands of refs. Recently it added CSL support, expanding its bibliography styles from the hundreds to > 10,000.

https://www.sonnysoftware.com/bookends-for-mac

Bookends works perfectly with Scrivener for a range of workflows:

1. Temporary citations which Bookends then renders to a bibliography in Word or as an RTF file.
2. Pandoc-flavoured temporary citations that can be converted automagically to ODT/DOCX/PDF/HTML/EPUB/ICML or a zillion other formats.
3. LaTeX temporary citations that also link to a synced BIB file for automated bibliographies using TeX.

Like Scrivener, Bookends is best-in-class for what it does, and both apps works wonderfully together. Quite a few other Scrivener users on this forum will sing its praises besides me…

[nontroppo]

I forgot, but I did try to make a how-to for different reference managers for Scrivener here:

Using Scrivener with reference software (wiki)

Introduction For certain types of writing, it is essential to cite your sources in the text and then create a bibliography / reference list. To help with this, specialist software allows you to search for references and store them in a database. Depending on the software, you can create notes and relationships for each reference, and attach and manage the source material as a PDF or other text format. As you write, references need to be inserted into your text (either inline or as footnote…

You can compare the workflow among the different tools. My preferred order of software is Bookends > JabRef > Zotero > Endnote. But if you get Endnote for free from a University subscription for example, then it may make sense to use that for example…

[mledford313]

Thank you for this! I will check it out.
M

[pritcharddesign]

I installed Bookends and downloaded the tutorial, which is out of date!! Do you know where I can find a good one?

[suavito]

Which tutorial do you mean? You can find tutorials in the Help sections of both Scrivener and Bookends.

For a quick start set the word processor in Bookends to “Scrivener” in Preferences/General and the bibliography manager in Scrivener to “Bookends” in General/Citations.

After that, create some test references. The easiest way would be to use the Online Search function in Bookends and import some references. Or you import your existing references.

And then, when both programs are running, type CMD-y in Scrivener to move Bookends to the front, pick a reference, and hit CMD-y again to copy the selected reference into Scrivener at the position where you left (could be the main text body, or a footnote, or else).

An alternative way of getting references is to double-tap Control in Scrivener to evoke Bookends’ floating citation panel, that has a search field. Drag & drop from Bookends to Scrivener does work too.

You should also familiarise yourself with the concept of temporary citations. That is, if you don’t already know them from Zotero.

[xiamenese]

To add to what @suavito has said, Bookends can be used very simply like that, which is how I use it, though it has great capabilities.

The only other thing you need to set up in Bookends is the bibliography format(s) needed for your publishing target(s). That you do by selecting the one(s) you need from Biblio → Formats Manager.

Mark

[pritcharddesign]

I’m pretty much looking for Bookends for dummies. I just don’t want to get too far into it and find I should have _________________.

@suavito

For a quick start set the word processor in Bookends to “Scrivener” in Preferences/General and the bibliography manager in Scrivener to “Bookends” in General/Citations.

Thanks!

[pritcharddesign]

If anyone’s interested I found this zoom class on Zotero basics at Stanford. Looks like free and for anyone because I registered.

Zotero Basics

[nontroppo]

Just to add that, the Scrivener workflow with Zotero can be more complex than that with Bookends. I continue to recommend that you get what you pay for, and free citation managers like Zotero can’t compete with a tool like Bookends.

If anyone can recommend any documentation updates to the Wiki page I set up, please let me know or as it is a wiki, add improvements yourself.

Using Scrivener with reference software (wiki)

Introduction For certain types of writing, it is essential to cite your sources in the text and then create a bibliography / reference list. To help with this, specialist software allows you to search for references and store them in a database. Depending on the software, you can create notes and relationships for each reference, and attach and manage the source material as a PDF or other text format. As you write, references need to be inserted into your text (either inline or as footnotes…

[Sicahjes]

I continue to recommend that you get what you pay for, and free citation managers like Zotero can’t compete with a tool like Bookends.

I’m new here and trying to figure out how to cite in Scrivener (thus why I’m commenting on an older post), but to be fair Zotero is an amazing tool.

I’m exploring the possibility of using Bookends so I can use Scrivener, and immediately I have encountered barriers:

• The expense is eye watering, especially given it is for one licence. Users have to buy multiple licences if they wish to use it on more than one computer. As a grad student I have two computers (home and office), so I would need to purchase two licences at an expense of $330 total (in AUD) to get started.
• When you buy a licence you only get updates for 2 years, not for the life of the version.
• It does not have a Safari connector. The lack of connector would force me to either use a bookmarklet (just, no) or the browser (which would change my workflow, but also doesn’t play nicely with add blockers).
• It will not sync with Dropbox etc.

There are things I quite like (for example, the format manager looks promising), but the expense is a real barrier. Given it’s first target customer is students (i.e. tagline is Bookends is a full-featured reference management app for students and professionals) the price is rather shocking.

[kewms]

@Sicahjes

Users have to buy multiple licences if they wish to use it on more than one computer

That’s not what their FAQ says:

Can I install Bookends on both my desktop and laptop computers with one license?

Probably. Licenses are per user, not per computer. That means if you are the only person using a license you can install it on more than one computer for your own use. Note that you can not run Bookends on more than one computer simultaneously. If more than one person is using Bookends, you need one license for each person.

Bookends — FAQ?

[nontroppo]

Bookends is certainly more expensive than Zotero, but priced much lower than Endnote (which is an eye watering €300 / €160 for students). It is not a corporate product, but developed full time by two developers who have families etc. — it has been continually developed since 1984, and receives regular updates and improvements. Like Scrivener, the main developer listens to user’s requests and evaluates if it can help Bookends and the developer/maintainance cost. There are a bunch of features in Bookends I asked for that Jon (the main developer) agreed were useful (and a bunch he rejected of course ), my point being this is Artisan software. Zotero is open-source and I value its contributions to the reference software space. With skill, you can fix or improve it and contribute back to the community, a great thing.

I certainly understand students need to count their pennies and I would love if they could get bookends for free, but I also recognise artisan, non-corporate software tools need money to survive. After two years Bookends continues to work, but updates are not provided[1], this was a hard decision for Jon, but it is also hard to escape economic reality. Bibliography software is dominated by big Corporations (Mendeley and Endnote at the very least), and the remaining slice of the pie isn’t big…

Regarding a Zotero connector (which I agree is a nice feature[2]) alternative, if you can’t use a bookmarklet for some reason[3], you can also use any other automation tool as Bookends has a full Applescript dictionary. I use Alfred, select any DOI/PMID/ISBN/arXiv in my preferred browser, and trigger an applescript that runs fully in the background to add the ref to the database while I continue looking for papers. This workflow works better for me, but I understand the convenience of a browser extension that is a main feature of Zotero…

Regarding iCloud sync: each small developer has to make choices. When Jon added sync, as he is on macOS and iOS, iCloud offers a strong advantage over third-party options like Dropbox. You can sync the PDFs with dropbox, it is only the database itself that uses iCloud. At least for me (I use iOS and macOS), the database sync is easily the best sync experience I’ve ever used. In academic talks or conferences I can quickly search Pubmed / quick add when a paper is mentioned and it gets synced immediately to my desktop. I have nearly 10,000 refs in my library and sync is instant wherever I go.

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[1] Bookends is really stable and Jon tries not to make backwards incompatible changes if he can. So an old version of Bookends continues to work well over time, with a slow tail off like any software on macOS (Apple do not care about backwards incompatibility and Apple’s developer APIs force developers to make choices each year)…
[1] Zotero started as a browser plugin for Firefox (and technically it still is, standalone version is a custom firefox build AFAIK), and this was its major benefit, as it evolved it was important to keep this browser integration and remains the best bit of Zotero.
[2] Bookmarklets can be useful, they are a lightweight extension without the extra baggage. Now the Bookends bookmarklet opens the URL in the BE browser so this isn’t automatic, why I prefer Quick add in the background…

[suavito]

It is important to understand the business model: Bookends for Mac is not a subscription that forces the user to renew every two years to keep the software working (like, say, Microsoft Office, only annually). At the end of the two-year period, Bookends will continue to work as before.

So you can decide when you want to upgrade, be it for new features you want to have, or because the old version does not work with the latest MacOS (which is your decision to upgrade to or not (unless your Mac breaks down and your version of Bookends does not work on a new OS—but then the cost of Bookends is one of your smaller problems)).

When developers talk about “lifetime versions”, they are usually referring to major versions of software. Instead of getting a licence for Bookends 15, including all 15.x.x versions, regardless of when they are released, you get all Bookends updates within the next two years, even 16.0 if it is released in that time.

Both models have their advantages and disadvantages: If you buy a major release with a lifetime licence shortly after it is released, you may have a long period of updates ahead of you. If you buy close to the next major release (but not within the grace period, when a lifetime licence allows you to get the next major version for free), the two-year upgrade licence is better for you.

But with either licence: You are not forced to upgrade.

[xiamenese]

No one has said you must buy a Mac. The OP is a Mac user, says he has installed Bookends and is looking for basic guide/help. The thread is based on that. Zotero, which is available for Windows is mentioned without any disparagement, merely the observations that it works better with Word than Scrivener … and this is the Scrivener forums.

[anon53021820]

This thread isn’t about looking for help with Bookends. OP had asked for advice about which reference manager would integrate best with Scrivener and the comment I replied to had suggested software that is Apple-exclusive.

[xiamenese]

The OP, @mledford313 is a Mac user and asks for an alternative to Zotero. @nontroppo recommended Bookends.

@pritcharddesign

I installed Bookends and downloaded the tutorial, which is out of date!! Do you know where I can find a good one?

@pritcharddesign

If anyone’s interested I found this zoom class on Zotero basics at Stanford. Looks like free and for anyone because I registered.

@nontroppo

Just to add that, the Scrivener workflow with Zotero can be more complex than that with Bookends. I continue to recommend that you get what you pay for, and free citation managers like Zotero can’t compete with a tool like Bookends.