Compile not creating hard Page Break

With my project, I have selected the format and section layouts I want for the compile.

Under Edit Format → Separators, I select Page Break as my separator before and between sections. This all looks great, but when I compile the document, I don’t get actual hard Page Breaks. The text is pushed out to the next page, but inspecting the document, what I get is a PageBreakBefore, not an actual Page Break. It is definitely different than if I manually add a page break.

This causes problems because as I try loading that .docx into other software I use to create the final book for printing (such as Atticus), they cannot parse the file into different chapters. They do not recognize the soft pagebreakbefore as actual page breaks.

This leaves me having to manually add page breaks, or some other manual process.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to make the compile feature generate actual page breaks?

Thanks

Hi.

I’m not sure I fully understand your question/issue, but,
perhaps go in your compile format and make sure that your section layouts (blue) have the setting properly set (red), so that they use the default separators settings, or, else, set them right, their intended separator, one by one.

1 Like

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

I have all the section layouts set to use the ‘Page Break’ separators.

The issue is, what gets compiled is not a hard “Page Break”. When I load up Word and toggle the Show/Hide button, there is no Page Break. Just symbols that look like paragraph breaks.

If I select the end of one chapter and edit the paragraph Lines and Page Breaks section, I can see the “Page Break Before” checkbox is selected.

What is want is for Scrivener to compile the .docx with actual page breaks, not the soft “Page Break Before”.

Does that help?

I’m sure it will. (Not me though. I can’t help more than I already tried to – I don’t use Word.)

AmberV has removed the bug tag from the thread, meaning there is (very likely) a solution, a proper way to handle this.
It’ll come.

Thanks, I hope so! I’ve tried everything I can think of. Hopefully I’ve just overlooked something.

1 Like

Sorry, I don’t use Word either, so I’m not terribly familiar with what you’re referring to. Every definition of a “soft page break” that I’ve encountered is referring to what the software inserts automatically at the end of a page once it is filled, so that it can continue printing on the next—it isn’t something a user would insert or control. (I.e. much like a soft line break, what word processors use to break at the end of a line and start on the next, as opposed to a hard break which we typically insert with the Enter key.)

Well, perhaps academic confusions over jargon aside, what Scrivener does most often insert is a section break, particularly if there are RTF bookmarks being inserted (see Settings tab for all section layouts in use), and any options in the Page Setup section that would adjust how headers and footers are printed from one section to the next. So I’d first try a duplicate copy of your Format with those mentioned settings removed, and see if that works better in Atticus. Since you are using a layout tool to do the final design, you likely don’t need any of those settings anyway, and they may be making the document more complicated and rigid than it needs to be. Section breaks, while they do facilitate some of Scrivener’s features, are known to cause problems with some layout engines.

Another thing to try (perhaps on top of the above, if that does not work alone) is to eliminate the potential complicating factor that is third-party conversion. Compile as RTF, which is Scrivener’s native format, instead of DOCX. Perhaps it is the converter that is creating breaks this way.

Lastly, I’ve always seen it advised, on typesetting and design sites, that best practices for word processors is to set the heading style itself to break the page (and this would be a design-phase action of course, not something in Scrivener, typically as part of a template or design setup that the compiled output gets inserted into), rather than to insert a forced page break into the content stream itself. The latter is meant more for late-stage proofing, to fix cases where the automated (soft, in the above definition) breaks are awkward. When used indiscriminately it can at times produce unwanted blank pages if the soft break and the hard break align.

To that end, were I ever to use Scrivener’s word processing-based output, I would switch all section/page breaking separators off, and merely ensure my heading styles were properly applied in Section Layouts, to produce a proper hierarchical heading structure, and handle all page flow matters as a consequence of the stylesheet design. But I don’t know if Atticus works that way—I more familiar with LibreOffice best-practices. I’d look into it though, it might be the simpler and right way forward than trying to make Scrivener produce something that is itself still yet not the best way to format a document. Perhaps Atticus is looking for standard “Heading 1”, “Heading 2” type stylesheet structure, or maybe like Vellum it has its own naming scheme that you would want to match.

I’m curious to hear how these experiments go. We haven’t had much around here on integrating Scrivener with Atticus.

1 Like

Driving the page breaks via styles is probably the best way to go, but you can run a Find/Replace in Word to easily swap the section breaks for manual page breaks. Search for ^b and replace with ^m. There’s not a way to set that difference within Scrivener’s compiler.

2 Likes

I got page breaks for Acts, Chapters and Scenes with the following setup. The key is to make sure the Section Layouts you are using are getting the separators you want. You can in the separator tab of the compile format designer move the section layouts around . I ordered my Acts, Chapters, and Scene layouts in order of appearance and used a submission collection to quickly test what I was doing.

Here are my separator settings which got a page break for all the elements in Word.

THANK YOU! For the several detailed suggestions.

I got one to work.

I did not test all the ideas yet, but did try the suggestion to remove all separators and to set the “Chapter XX” text format to the style of “Heading 1”.

this exports great into .docx format and the file looks good.

It successfully loaded and split into correct chapters in both Atticus and Bobbinry (a new software I am helping to beta test)

Again, thanks for the help. I no longer need to deal with manual shenanigans to make it work.

3 Likes