Compile Set Text Attributes

[pseingalt]

I have a document I’d like to compile.
There is no uniformity as to font/font size in the editor,
I have used two styles, “No Style” and “Block quotes”.
No other style is used.
For Section headings I’ve used Markdown syntax (# or ##).

How can I compile so the result is:

textblock will be 12 pt Times Roman.
Block quotes will be 11 pt or 11.5 pt Times Roman.
chapter Headings will use a San Serif font.

I’ve seen in compile the “No layouts assigned.” But if I click on “assign section layouts” there is no way to enter these parameters as shown.

How can I fix this? (I admit that the changes to compile 3.0 have stymied me from Day #1)

[JenT]

Are you using Scrivener on macOS or Windows? The Compile options are somewhat different on each platform.

[pseingalt]

Mac.

Though if Windows would be easier I can move the project there.

[JenT]

Mac is fine. So, the basic step you need is to either select an existing Format that’s close to what you want (Formats are in the left column of the Compiler) and duplicate and edit it, or you can click the + in the lower left corner to create your own from scratch. If there’s one that’s close, I’d start with an existing one, as it’s a time-saver. For example, the Manuscript (Times) Format is a good starting point for a novel and already puts your body text in Times New Roman 12 pt.

To edit an existing format, just double-click the title and select Duplicate & Edit. Then you get a lot more options for customizing the compiled output.

[pseingalt]

But is there a way to directly assign a format (fontface & size) to an editor style? (In this case, no style and blockquote) I haven’t looked at every single template, but none of the ones I looked at had these two options.

[JenT]

You’ll need to assign section layouts, as you’ll be making adjustments to formatting under Section Layouts. For example, chapter folders are usually assigned the “Chapter Heading” layout, and scene documents are usually assigned the “Section” layout. If you’ve used a template you’ll have a bunch of section layouts to choose from. If you started from Blank or imported a Scrivener 2 document, you may need to create your own.

You might find the Scrivener 3 for Scrivener 2 users guide helpful: https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-3-update-guide It covers some differences in the Compiler.

I’d also recommend the “Getting Your Work Out” videos, which give a good overview of the Compiler: Videos | Literature & Latte

[JenT]

No Style will be replaced with whatever the text font setting is in the Compiler. Generally, any paragraph styles that are used in the editor will be maintained on Compile. You can change your heading font once you’ve applied a heading section layout to the appropriate folder.

[pseingalt]

But that’s the problem: the editor displays all different kinds of sizes (and from time to time a sans serif font. I want to associate “no style” with:

a fontface
a font size
a style that Scrivener understands (i.e., I can’t just use a style called “textblock” because there is no such option in Compile)

[drmajorbob]

No style is not a style, it doesn’t act like a style, and you don’t need to associate it with a style in Compile.

In each section layout, click the box to override editor formatting, then use the formatting bar and format menu to apply the font family, paragraph format, etc.

[gr]

There is also a place in editing your chosen Compile format to say how you want defined styles (like your block quote style) to behave. By default they will get formatted as defined, but you can likewise override this and give those paragraphs a makeover look on compile.

[devinganger]

@pseingalt

But that’s the problem: the editor displays all different kinds of sizes (and from time to time a sans serif font.

This is a feature of Scrivener, not a bug, and one of the many reasons why L&L recommends not using a base style in the editor.

For all text that doesn’t have a style, when you Compile it, the compiler will automatically apply the text formatting that you have selected as the default for that compile format. Your defined styles will pass through their formatting, unless you create a corresponding compile style to override the editor style of the same name.

If you don’t like looking at the jumble, you can always edit the Scrivener-wide default text format, or the project-specific text format, and then use the conversion commands in the editor to take your text and reformat it to the new default. You can do this in bulk.

[drmajorbob]

@devinganger

@pseingalt

But that’s the problem: the editor displays all different kinds of sizes (and from time to time a sans serif font.

This is a feature of Scrivener, not a bug

I think that much is a feature of all word processors.

@devinganger

For all text that doesn’t have a style, when you Compile it, the compiler will automatically apply the text formatting that you have selected as the default for that compile format

I’m not aware of any default formatting for a compile format. In each layout, we can elect to compile as-is (i.e. as defined in the Editor, no uniformity guaranteed) or we can select to override, click in the sample text, and change the format. That’s on a per-layout basis.

(The word format is badly overloaded.)

[pseingalt]

In this case, “no style” is text block or paragraph formatting. Yet there is no option to define this–or change it from “no style” to “text block” or “paragraph” globally. “As is” won’t work because, where I have brought a note over from another program, the fonts and size are messed up (yes, I could have “pasted and matched style” but this wasn’t workable in a long text, so unless there’s a global way to change, I can’t leave “style as is” .

[kewms]

If a Section Layout has the “Override text and notes formatting” box checked, it will normalize all text – regardless of existing format – to that Layout’s assigned formatting. (Text with an assigned Style will not change, which is one of the reasons to be cautious when assigning Styles.)

This is easier to demonstrate than to explain. Using the Manuscript (Times) format, please assign the Section Text layout to one or more of your body text sections, Compile to PDF, and take a look at the result.

[drmajorbob]

@pseingalt

In this case, “no style” is text block or paragraph formatting

No style is no particular formatting; it’s what the styles box says when there is no style assigned.

@pseingalt

Yet there is no option to define this–or change it from “no style” to “text block” or “paragraph” globally.

As I said above, you don’t have to change it to “text block”, “paragraph”, or any other style (assuming those are style names for you). And no, you can’t do anything globally, but you can override Editor formatting on a layout-by-layout basis, as I explained before.

[pseingalt]

I duplicated the Manuscript Times compile template and changed some defaults. After finishing (parenthetically, how do I remove indents from block quotes?)

This didn’t do it.

Instead, this was the result:

So, modifying the template had no effect. That is, selecting the modified template assigns no layouts to the section; there is merely an additional template–to do what with?

So then I tried to change the font face to Times Roman.

This eliminated the sans serif fonts, but there is no font size control so large size fonts as displayed in the editor are not affected.

Trying to assign layouts is confusing: Are these for body text or just chapter headings?

What about this one? Is it for section text, or just section headings? Is there any way to modify it? (Nothing in the template editor, which is unlinked)

Let’s go to one that looks like text , click section and then click on it. Or double click on it and don’t click section:

(Note the crosshatches between paragraphs: where did these come from? There are no crosshatch-less options.) Or how about this one?

Compile again. Here’s the result:

Good news: sans serif fonts are gone.
Too bad I can’t use them for section/chapter headings
Good news: Oversized fonts are gone
Bad news: No chapter headings.
Bad news: block quotes are not properly set (need equal margin indentation but no text indentation) as noted above, no place to fix.
Bad news: where did that running header come from? ( I know this is needed for mss. submitted to trad publishers, but that’s not my use case.

Here is the exotic, exception-laden edge case, the bizarre look --feel free to hit the space bar if you are concerned about not unseeing–I am trying to achieve:

Notice the sans serif font introduces the chapter/section.
Notice how the block quote a) is a block, is not indented, and b) is set off from the document’s left and right margins.

I could whine and say “why is this so complicated” but I won’t. Just,
how and where do I fix this? Where can I choose these exotic, complicated attributes?

[pseingalt]

I should point out that I’ve used Markdown syntax to identify chapters and sections in the text. So a chapter heading begins with a “#”, a section heading with a “##.” I can change these easily enough in the editor.

I don’t understand why these text attributes are not carried over to compile. I get that this is a design choice, not the default; is there a way to get compile to recognize them? I know there are options (dump to LaTeX, a Markdown editor or even Vellum) but the problem then is multiple final versions (.tex, .md, .vellum) which all have to be aligned when there’s a single edit to be made. So I’m trying (this time) to keep everything in Scrivener.

I should add that there are problems with all these “helper” programs: LaTeX is graphics unaware; that is, including graphics will require tweaking the size manually; Markdown has the same problem, Vellum is a little bit better but does not allow manual graphics tweaking and is also, at least at present, tables unaware. Scrivener seems to scale graphics appropriately and is tables aware.

[drmajorbob]

@pseingalt

That is, selecting the modified template assigns no layouts to the section; there is merely an additional template–to do what with?

To do (as always) the 4 step process.

• give every document a section type corresponding to its semantic or organizational meaning
• for each semantic/organizational type, create a section layout
• format each layout as needed for that kind of document
• assign a section layout to each section type

Using a built-in format can simplify the process, or it can provide results out-of-the-box without going through the steps, but all 4 things in the list have to be done if not already there.

@pseingalt

This eliminated the sans serif fonts, but there is no font size control so large size fonts as displayed in the editor are not affected.

You used the shortcut override for font family only, so that’s what you got.

@pseingalt

Trying to assign layouts is confusing: Are these for body text or just chapter headings?

Both, but not in precisely the same part of a layout.

Go through this workflow and see if it helps:

chapters, headings, etc.

If not, we can do a Zoom session. Or struggle on this way forever. It’s hard to get through this in text messages.

[pseingalt]

It will take a while to go through this, thank you.

But it seems that semantic sections (e.g., in Markdown syntax:

Title

Chapter

Section)

or, as identified in the editor (after adding Chapter since it’s not there))

are not recognized/have nothing to to do with the concept of “Section” in the Inspector:

My subheading here is still identified as a “Section” in the Inspector, though it’s not. It’s a subheading.

Please forgive the inaccurate ovals. And it would be hypocritical for me to use Zoom…

[drmajorbob]

@pseingalt

My subheading here is still identified as a “Section” in the Inspector, though it’s not. It’s a subheading.

Section is just a word, in this case the name of a section type. It could say Mxyzpltk over there and have the same effect, depending on the four steps I mentioned earlier.

Every piece of anything can be called a section. It’s just an English word.

In the top left, Heading 2 is the name of a style. That too could be any name at all.

As for Zoom, I’ve gotten people through it time after time in Zoom, without spending DAYS at it the way you’re doing it.