Could the Chinese Communists be developing bio weapons that target specific races?

This had nothing to do with capitalism. It is a military stratagem “scorched earth policy” that has been used since ancient times by all sides to prevent opposing forces to have the means to make war. Make no bones about it. The Europeans had invaded North America and were at war with the native inhabitants. This was an invasion of one geographical area by another population as has happened uncountable times throughout history. Thinks of Hun invasion of Europe, Germanic invasion of Rome, Viking invasion of British Isles and Europe, Roman invasion of Gaul, Makedonian invasion of Persia, Mongol invasion of everyone. X has been invading Y since the beginning of time and scorched earth tactic was in use since the earliest times. If the Persians had used Scorched earth tactics most likely Alexander would have met his end rather quickly and he would not be known as the great. But the Persians were loath to burn their lands on the advice of a Greek mercenary thus with ample supplies available by foraging Alexander was able to win at Granicus and get a foothold in Asia Minor.

Except that capitalism is the reason why the US government wanted the land in the first place. There is a long and bloody history in the US of making treaties with the indigenous population and then breaking them as soon as the formerly “worthless” land became valuable for whatever reason.

It’s somewhat disingenuous to dismiss something as a “military tactic” without bothering to investigate the motivations for the war. Especially in a case like this, given the abundant historic examples of military adventures motivated by capitalist interests.

For a short period of time (decades), yes. Slavery was profitable at the time. But it can’t beat mechanized agriculture.

Nope. It started at the beginning of mercantilism. And I’m sure the African slavers, who sold those slaves in the first place, weren’t capitalists either. Also:

“Slavery was prevalent in many parts of Africa for many centuries before the beginning of the Atlantic slave trade. There is evidence that enslaved people from some parts of Africa were exported to states in Africa, Europe, and Asia prior to the European colonization of the Americas.” (Source: Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia)

So is Exxon a capitalist company, or a mercantilist company? By some definitions, mercantilism is simply an early form of capitalism.

In the US, mechanized farming didn’t become economical until the 1930s. Slave labor was replaced not by tractors, but by sharecroppers.

Yeah, and by other definitions it’s a late form of absolutism. What’s your point? Without capitalism no Atlantic slave trade? Or no slavery at all?

I think my point is right there in the original post. That the Atlantic slave trade as a global industry
was a manifestation of capitalism.

So, then you know the point in time when slavery would’ve been doomed. If it wasn’t abolished before for other reasons. Even more: It was abolished by a capitalist society before it was really profitable to do so.

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And that’s plain wrong. Any other points?

The “wrongness” depends on one’s definition of mercantilism, although certainly the trade persisted well into the capitalist era.

But to the original point of the thread, and the post, the Atlantic slave trade certainly wasn’t a demonstration of communism.

Well, the Portuguese started it. Being feudal at the time. Now what?

IIRC, the South fought pretty hard to keep it, precisely because it was extremely profitable.

It would have been. Until about 1930. So from a pure economical point of view, it wasn’t the most “capitalistic” move at the time. Basically one part of a capitalist country forcing the other part to be nicer. Sacrificing half a million lives to achieve that.

How is it fallacious? The Black Book of Communism is not a compilation of all the nasty things the communists have done. Just the body count. It doesn’t mention slave labor, gulags, “re-education,” forced exile, forced sterilization, organ harvesting, one child policy (in China), living in constant terror of that knock on the door at night, living in fear that your neighbor, friend or even your family would denounce you. And so on.

Did you know that in communist regimes people stopped buying and keeping address books? Why? Because if they were arrested they were expected to denounce every name in that address book and the people in that book would also get knocks on the door at night. And their address books would also be examined.

And then there was “redistribution of wealth.”

My wife was born and raised in a former communist country. She told me how her grand father as a young man came to the USA and worked hard for 20+ years in the Railroads and saved money. He came back to the old country and used his savings to build several apartment buildings. After WW2 the communists came and took all his property away and gave to communist party members and he was left with just one small area to live. He was lucky at least they didn’t shoot him like the others.

And her father, was a skilled draftsman and architect. He was offered a big promotion that would mean big flat, nice car and so on, but the catch was he had to join the communist party. But that meant he would have to officially become an atheist. He refused because he was a devout theist and would not denounce God, so he forsook that position. He had no regrets. And she was living in Yugoslavia under Tito where they practiced “soft communism.”

I lived in Asia for almost 20 year and have many friends and associates who lived under the Soviets where they had “hard communism.” It was much worse. Several were sent to psychiatric asylums because they believed in God. They were given horrible drugs meant to destroy their mind. The Soviets were so ingenious that they developed a drug that was the opposite of a “pain killer” it was a “pain inducer.” After injection with this drug the victim would writhe on the floor screaming in agony as every cc in their body was a center of pain. They had to endure this not for weeks or months but years. One sadly died in prison. His crime? He would not denounce God.

If you do not have friends or family who lived under communism reading Solzhenitsyn will give you an idea. Communism is where the living envy the dead. Or as one Russian joke put it “if the Sahara desert ever became communist there would be a shortage of sand.”

And, is it necessary to get insulting?

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Irrelevant and dubious at best.

Disingenuous: lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere.

Is it really necessary to be insulting?

The vast, overwhelming majority of wars are enterprises wherein the aggressor is trying to take away, remove, steal, purloin, and so on, that which belongs to the defender. So why are you surprised? That is the nature of this cruel, harsh world that we live in. It is a temporary place full of misery. And part of that harsh misery is that during wars “scorched earth tactics” are used to achieve strategic objectives.

I am not saying it is right, or good, or virtuous. I am saying that this is what happens in wars.

And as my wife who lived through 4 years on the front line of that dirty civil war in the Balkans told me “war is the worst thing you will ever experience.”

I don’t think I’ve defended communism at any point in this thread. And I actually have read Solzhenitsyn.

Rather, my point is that capitalism has plenty to answer for as well. Not least its willingness to collaborate with communist regimes. “The capitalists will sell us the rope with which to hang them.”

There’s a long history of propagandists on both sides dismissing the evils of their own system by saying, “Look! The other guys are worse!”

But why do wars happen? That’s my point, and that’s why I find the profit-driven war-mongering of many countries – including my own – repulsive.

I think we can agree that people are a mess. And they do horrible things when they think they can get away with it. Let’s be realistic, there aren’t many altruistic wars (if any) known in human history.

I also do not defend an immoral capitalism fueled by unbounded greed. Capitalism that will turn anything into a commodity and sell it to the highest bidder. Capitalism that creates mindless consumers who buy whatever is advertised whether they need it or not. The unethical, soul killing, type of capitalism. That I am against.

As Solzhenitsyn told the students at Harvard “the difference between the Russians and the Americans is that at least the Russians know that they are slaves.”

The West depends on consumer confidence and their spending to drive the engines of industry. If you ever watched the MATRIX and seen the “battery people” who live in the pods and provide electricity for the MATRIX, well you could say that most conspicuous consumers are the “battery people” of our times, spending even if they go in debt. And this keeps the economy going. As I once saw on a bumper sticker “I owe, I owe, and off to work I go.”

My wife though deploring many of things she experienced under communism also pointed out some good things. It was safe to walk the streets even at night, even for women and children, very low crime rate, no prostitution, no pornography, no public vulgarity. Why? She said because the police were very strong and people were afraid of doing stupid things. You just didn’t mess with the police. But at same time the police did their job and you felt safe from criminals types. Just that you better not say anything of a political nature. :grinning:

Now in her country (unethical) capitalism brought them pornography, drug addiction, prostitution, consumerism, and a host of other evils.

It is not the concept of capitalism that is wrong, but unethical, unfettered, immoral, driven by greed, type of capitalism that is the real problem.