Disappointed in "Convert Multimarkdown to Rich Text" Compile option

So… I feel like I should know how to do this, but I’m having trouble easily tracking the technique down.

How does one get the option to compile to RTF from MMD? I’m only seeing MMD to PDF, HTML, LaTeX, ODT and FODT.

Since I’m able to get the double-spaced paragraphs thing working for LaTeX, I feel like my explanation must be missing a step or three. I blame waves at the state of the world, and the USA in particular for my general lack of focus–I should be able to figure this out myself, but even searching the manual is turning up too many false-positives.

Distractedly yours,
R. Da… SQUIRREL!

I see why you’re confused. It’s not an option to “compile for.” It’s an option to “convert to.” You find it in the general compile options panel:
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Hope this helps!

You’re welcome! If you decide to pick up Scrivener again, especially for your fiction, do check out my blog for vast amounts of detail.

Of course… I think I knew all of that at one time. Now I understand the “convert” part of your original post. Excuse me while I go lie on the floor for a while and think about what I’ve done.

I’m confused. Just because Scrivener is a visually oriented editor doesn’t mean it’s WYSIWYG. The program, documentation, and forums all go well out of their way to point out that Scrivener is explicitly NOT WYSIWYG.

You’re right of course. It’s all over the documentation and the forums. But that doesn’t prevent a post about every two weeks from a new user who’s totally confused because Scrivener isn’t WYSIWYG and/or doesn’t behave like [insert word processor here.]

My thoughts are simply that the less Scrivener resembles Word, the less likely it is that a new user who plunges in and starts using Scrivener (without reading anything) will expect it to behave like Word. Perhaps this is foolish wishful thinking. In any event, L&L seem well on their way to learning all they can about this, via the Great Big Scrivener Survey and soon-to-be Son of Great Big Scrivener Survey. I’ll let them get on with it. :smiley:

Not foolish or wishful, but if my 25+ years of IT have taught me anything, it’s that people will bring their previous experiences and expectations with them into new programs. This is human behavior and is somewhat of a successful survival instinct, so it’s not a surprise that’s what humans do when confronted with something new – they immediately try to figure out how it resembles things they already think they know.

There are rarely technological solutions to behavior-driven issues. L&L has, I think, done a fairly good job of threading the line between “familiar enough” and “totally new” – and there will always be people who think they have the balance wrong.

I think the very name Rich Text Format suggests to users that formatting is central to Scrivener’s offer, and that pretty much equates as being akin to WYSIWYG for them, irrespective of what the manual or forum or website might say.

I do some work with creative writers who are struggling to write. Most are suffering from Word-constipation: they have got into the habit of opening Word and being overwhelmed by the formatting (not necessarily WYSIWYG) goodies available to them. It’s all just noise and digression. First thing I do is to break them away from Word by getting them just to write on paper or a board or a wall or window … literally anything that allows them just to write. Even then, people will add some formatting to their words: underlines, block-caps, etc. (They default to a kind of Markdown.)

When (or if) we get back to using a computer, we start with a plain-text editor or something clean, like iA Writer or Bear. For many, Word, word processors, RTF, etc are a curse. They are tools really designed for typists (back in the day) or people doing clerical work. They have nothing to do with the art and skill of writing. And professional pre-publication formatting should be done with a specific tool.

I think most (creative) writers need a clutter-free space to write and another space to understand and manipulate structure: the editor and the binder in Scrivener.

From my experience, the pared-back interface of iOS Scrivener is a pretty ideal writing environment (would be nice if plain text were an option or the default), so a version of that running on a Mac would be a joy. If there were an optional companion tool that added in more Mac-specific goodies, at least the people who want all the extras would still be able to have them. But, from what I have seen of creative writers working with professional publishers, I doubt many would need such an extra tool.

Write. Structure. Edit. Compile. All in Scrivener.

Design and format and typeset elsewhere.

And with only one developer working on Apple versions of Scrivener, wouldn’t it help workloads and enchantments to have a universal app with one core development stream that can satisfy most (I assume) users? And isn’t Apple with its new silicon and promotion of iDevices making the market ever stronger for universal apps?

Think two apps that work differently across devices just adds to user confusion. A single experience has got to be more useful for the majority, hasn’t it? And if Apple is heading that way, isn’t “the old way” of having two different apps just going to lead to Scrivener losing users as time and progress march on?

I completely love Scrivener (save for Dropbox), but it definitely overwhelms many people with its RTF / quasi-WYSIWYG formatting, its huge array of options, and its different versions.

I agree.

I was there when it started; I wrote apps for Mac before it was released. The original intent of Word was to take advantage of the Mac interface by offering a “virtual typewriter”—something that a person who typed, be she typist or author, would find familiar (in keeping with @devinganger’s comments above), with its “sheets of paper” “margin setting” “tabs” and so forth. And then they added fonts, and all Hades broke loose.

Here’s where we part ways. I’m all for making the actual editing environment simpler, and avoiding Rich Text. But you’ll pry my stacked corkboards from my cold dead fingers.

Only one level of corkboard? No outliner view? No Scrivenings view? No collections? No keywords? No split view editor? No custom metadata? No way. And I’m delighted that there’s no need to go paying a large fee for a professional layout application (at least not for fiction.) I’ve done my own self-publishing and (except for an embarrassing typo) produced excellent results. I’ve examined “big publisher” book interior design, and it’s pretty bare bones unless your name is J. K. Rowling or George Martin. Scrivener’s compile can easily match 80% or more of professional publishing output all by its compiler lonesome.

iOS Scrivener is too limited for me, and yet has the one complication I could happily do without, in rich text. So I’ve moved on from iOS Scrivener. I certainly am not abandoning Mac Scrivener. I need its organisation tools and its compiler. Fortunately, I have editing options.

Oh, and regarding having single app experience across iOS, iPadOS, and Mac: Evernote have just perpetrated that very thing, simplifying their Mac app into unusability. They’re on the verge of losing me as a customer. DEVONthink is looking better…

Concur. I’ve never understood this push to have a single app that acts exactly the same on different devices that are designed for different use cases – especially when those devices are made by Apple and are so very clearly optimized for different purposes. Do we yet have touch screen on Macs? No?

Now, having a single code base that conditionally compiles depending on the target platform so that you get the core app with additional functionality that makes sense for the target – that does make sense. But it’s not like Apple has made that easy to do in the past for non-trivial applications like Scrivener that have relied upon the rich APIs Mac OS has provided. You need to be a big shop with a stable of developers who can write and maintain all the specialize back-end libraries that you will need…

The way to do it would be to have all of the core code in a cross-platform framework shared between two Xcode projects, with the UI layer handled in platform-specific code outside of the framework. Were I ever to rewrite Scrivener from scratch… :slight_smile:

It’s really worse than I described with Evernote. They simplified their iOS apps, too, and they were already pretty basic. They’ve also gutted their Windows and Android apps. Grr. The one feature that’s keeping me on is indexing handwriting, and I’m trembling on the brink of deciding to live without it.

But heck yes. Everything on iOS and iPadOS has to be big enough to be tapped with a finger, and capable of being edited with an onscreen keyboard. For all of iPad using keyboard, mouse, and Pencil, iPhone versions have to live without those. Were developers to assume that all iPad users have external keyboards, mice, and Pencils available all the time, there would be a great (justified!) outcry.

Why give up what Mac can uniquely do? And all this doesn’t even address Windows—I feel for L&L’s Windows developers. Trying to produce an interface that’s usable on everything from a Surface to a gaming machine with two gazillion monitors and keep compatibility with the common project format and provide feature parity… whew. Glad I’m not developing any more.

And that’s the problem with the iPhone-iPad-Mac axis. It’s all very well for something like Ulysses with developers who have chosen to limit themselves to the Apple universe. But if a firm’s audience is wider then catering to Apple-provincial tastes may be counter-productive.

Your single code base idea has merit. But it’s hard, hard, hard to make the decision to abandon working code, as @kb hinted above. I shall await events with interest.