Feeling about Corkboard

del

I have the same problem, and I suspect that anyone with more than a half-dozen labels is going to run into it eventually, likewise, as there are only so many wildly different colours going around.

But, even with a bold presentation, colour is only ever going to be a vague indicator of information. SuperNotecard had to get around this by having a legend available in the card deck area, so you could cross reference colour codes. That program suffers from meta-data vagueness even more, because it does not have something like an Inspector, where you can at least click on a card and get the real data. It relies 100% on symbolic data like colour squares around the edges of the card. Fortunately, the pins in Scrivener are more an adornment than anything else. I’m guessing that is why they are not enabled by default.

Yes, I am rambling.

How about an ellipsis? In fact, it thought it already was that way, but I see it is not. I think I must have come to that impression so some tutorial synopsis ended that way in the text itself. Have you tried expanding the card size itself? If you are putting a lot of content in them, it might be useful – not that it is a solution to the problem you mentioned, but just in general. I ask because I had never even thought of putting carriage returns into them.

Another thing, while on this thread, I don’t remember who said it, but somebody suggested being able to flip a card like a widget so you could type more. I don’t know about that, but I got to thinking, it would actually be neat if it did act like a widget, but on the back you could edit some of the meta-data things like status, label, and maybe even keywords.

But, that is a feature request for much later. :slight_smile:

And then I got to thinking, what if the corkboard was like the Dashboard and it flew out of space at the touch of a hot key – and then I realised that I have not slept in nearly 48 hours, and I really need to stop thinking! Because that is an absolutely silly idea.

Time to shut up, Amber. Ha.

Just for you AmberV

With what confusion thinking’s fraught
I sometimes think I’ll think no more,
For when I spend much time in thought
I unthink things I thought before!

When you return from slumber land, I hope this makes you smile.

del

Thank you for the sooth reminder to fetter the cranial bloodhounds, Mr. Lightning!

Maria, how many times have we been here. :wink: I thought we had already put this one to ground. I have said on several occasions that in beta 2 this behaviour is a preference, so you don’t have to have new cards created on return. This applies to binder, outliner and corkboard.

Incidentally, hitting return whilst editing does not create a new card - it ends editing. Only hitting enter again will create a new card (and let me stress: this is a preference in beta 2 :slight_smile: ). Oh, and you cannot create newlines in a corkboard index card by hitting return, because that would be odd behaviour. The corkboard is a control, just like a table view or outline view. Hitting return should either end editing or go to the next card, just as in any outline or table view. If you want a newline, use alt-enter, just as you would in any other control.

I do not see this. I assume you are talking about dragging and dropping? If so, the corkboard uses code based on bog-standard table views for drag and dropping. If you hold down the mouse and drag, things will move. :slight_smile: This happens to me sometimes in Finder; it happened a lot when I was getting used to my new MacBook’s trackpad. But this certainly isn’t a bug.

This is a matter of opinion. I much prefer the new pins. It depends on your choice of colour. Yes, if you are using pastel shades, chances are you will prefer SG’s implementation. However, as soon as you start using bolder colours, in SG you can barely read the text in the title (try a dark blue or dark green label with that black text over it).

The reason the pins’ colours are not exactly identical to the label is that the core pin image is grey, and the colour is superimposed over the top with a 50% opacity. This means that the colour will be off slightly. If anybody wants to play with the pin image to see if they can make the colours seem a little more “on”, they can find the .tif file inside the Scrivener package (Finder > Show Package Contents on Scrivener.app) at:

Scrivener.app/Contents/Resources/CorkboardPin.tif

You could try playing with the image and see how it looks in Scrivener, or playing with it in PhotoShop and try putting different colours over the top of it at different opacities. I’ll have another look at this myself, but it took me a long time just to get it as close as it is, so I would be grateful to anybody with the time to try to improve this.

This is so trivial that I thought no one would comment on it. :slight_smile: It is very easy to add ellipses to the end of a single line of text, but it is not so easy to add it to the end of multiple lines. I already thought of adding an arrow to the bottom, but given that you can resize the card, the arrow might end up getting printed over the top of the text or a line, so this isn’t really a good solution. I will have another look at adding ellipses, but I’m not promising anything. As to why text is selected - well, this is standard behaviour in Apple controls (table views etc). What do other people thing? I overrode this behaviour in the Outliner; I could override it in the corkboard too.

For the beginning??? :wink:

del

This may already be a settled issue and I realize why Keith doesn’t want to change things for now. But in the spirit of thinking about how Scrivener might evolve in the future, I thought I would share my experience with the Corkboard.

I am not one of the people who is confused by the toggle on and off paradigm of the corkboard and outliner. And I have found Corkboard to be more useful than I anticipated – didn’t think I would ever use it, now I like it a great deal. Tough I think I understand clearly how it works, I too have been frustrated by the blank space when I click on an individual document in the Binder. I would vote, in future releases, for some kind of better and more intuitive integration of the Corkboard and Binder or Corkboard and document editing.

I often am in Corkboard when my focus drifts to my list of docs in the Binder. I often then, without thinking about it, click on one of these documents -– expecting either to open the document or to call up the synopsis and neither happens – I’m in the blank corkboard. So I then either have to click again on the parent group to show all the cards and work with them or click on Corkboard icon to toggle off then click again on the document and then begin typing. It may just take me longer to internalize the norms of the mode. But it feels like I am getting caught up too often in the navigation process, having to shift my focus away from my thinking/writing to go through too many steps, and do too much mousing and clicking to get what and where I want. It seems a bit too complicated to me, not intuitive enough, a little slow. I would think that using a keycombination when clicking on a card in outliner would take you directly into the editing window of the document itself – which is what I always find myself doing intuitively, wanting the program to be able to do. And when confronted with the empty screen my first intuitive move always is to click in the Binder on the specific document I’m thinking about in relation to the whole project. I expect that particular index card/synopsis to then show up on the corkboard, either alone or with all of its siblings and highlighted.

When working quickly it seems like there are too many steps involved in clicking up on the parent and then finding the specific card on the board and clicking that and then, when I want to leap right into the document linked to a card, having to toggle outliner off, find the document in the binder, select it, and then click into the editing pane.

So this is not about not understanding how it works, but believing that Corkboard and Binder/editor behavior could be better and more intuitively integrated in order to improve workflow considerably and not distract users from their thinking and writing.

The Corkboard’s utility for me, and the amount of time I spend in it, would be greatly increased by the simple ability when in Corkboard mode 1. to have a key command that will send me directly into the document for editing and 2. to be able to click on a document in the Binder and have that behaviour register or be reflected in some way in the corkboard, by calling up the synopsis/card either alone or in combination with others would be very helpful.

Future thoughts on an already excellent program.

(The blank views in Mor when pressing on a child in the source view and seeing an empty entry view always confused and irritated me as well as it seemed to slow down navigation and distract me from thinking and writing.)

Hi gmw, and thanks for all the feedback this evening. To reply to this thread first:

Hurray! I knew I couldn’t be the only one. :slight_smile:

The questions is, how? I’ll come to that below…

A very good idea! I have added it to the “to do” list. It will probably be shift-cmd-enter (as cmd-enter is already taken up for playing videos. Although I might swap them around given that you will probably want to open documents more often…).

Note that in beta 2, double-clicking on the icon in an index card will open the document in the editor view if it is not a group.

Hmm. I am pondering on displaying just the single index card/outline item. I have answered why I have rejected the idea of showing the card in context in detail in this thread:

literatureandlatte.com/forum … .php?t=195

The main problem here is that the user suddenly has to get used to two different behaviours, depending on what they have clicked on. If clicking on a document with no children displayed its parents contents in the corkboard, but clicking on a document that does have children shows its children, then suddenly different documents work in completely different “directions”. This gets very confusing. I tried it, and hated it. I could go the route of just showing the single document’s synopsis card in the corkboard when a document with no children is displayed. But then you wouldn’t be able to drag anything into that corkboard to add children to that document. So again, you would have different behaviour depending on the document you have selected. I will give this more thought, but I’m not promising anything.

The trouble is that nobody has come up with a better idea that works. :slight_smile: Believe me, I went through a lot of different models before I settled on the present one.

So: 1. is on the list; 2. is under consideration with no promises.

Thanks. :slight_smile:

Keith -

I did not realize that in beta 2 double-clicking the icon in index card will open the doc in an editor. This will be a very very helpful improvement. If there is a key combination left to do this as well, that would be nice but you’ve already built in the functionality I was looking for and that is what is most important.

I’m also glad to hear that you are considering displaying single cards in corkboard when they are selected in the binder. I still think something like this would be useful, but I got used to the empty window in Mori and can get used to it in corkboard as well.

I have followed your struggles to better integrate corkboard with the binder and editors. I realize there is no easy solution here and that you’ve tried many scenarios. And the current version works very well. Perhaps this is something that can only be improved slowly after we all use Scrivener in general and corkboard in particular for a good amount of time.

I also realize that there is a certain integrity to your vision of the program as a whole. You have done a great job of being remarkably responsive to user suggestions and criticism, on the one hand, and remaining committed to your overall vision on the other. Just as the program balances flexibility (many user preferences, many ways to work, many modes to work in) with a tool designed to facilitate certain kinds of specific work processes. Great tools always present elegant and powerful solutions to specific problems/tasks but can never do everything. (Something I’ve learned from photography and surfing.)

You have worked too hard on this to quickly compromise the vision and I would encourage you to hold firm on those points - at least until there is a full release and we’ve all lived with the program for a while and had a chance to discover the ways in which you have thought this through.

Thanks again.

Hi,

I am fairly new to Scrivener so I have been playing around with ‘gold’ and ‘beta 2’. I have found the corkboard to be sensitive in beta 2 as Maria said. If you click-drag an index card to the right, the little place selector (the vertical black line that indicates where the card will be dropped when you let go) appears on the right-hand edge of the held card. It only moves to the right edge of the next card after you have moved the mouse more than halfway across that next card. If you do not move the mouse halfway across the next card, the place selector stays to the right of the held card, and that seems to be interpreted as “do nothing” or perhaps “move to the right of this card” (which is the same as nothing).

If you click-drag an index card to the left, the place selector appears on the left-hand edge of the held card, which is to be expected. However, the appearance of the place selector there seems to be interpreted as “swap with the card on the left” rather than the “move to the left of this card” / “do nothing” behaviour as above. Because the place holder appears in this position even if you move the held card one pixel to the left, you can end up swapping cards quite easily, especially when using a trackpad.

Note that, if you click-drag an index card to the left and then move the mouse more than halfway across the card on the left, the place holder appears on the left-hand edge of that card and this is interpreted as “swap with the card on the left” just as you would expect. The issue is that the “less than half way” action is being interpreted as a “swap” rather than as a “stay the same”.

I hope that explains the behaviour I am seeing adequately. I thought I would post it here since I came across Maria’s post almost immediately after I started browsing the forum.

Thx,
David

Hi,

Yes, I turned out to be wrong about this - there was a bug in betas 1 and 2 with drag and drop. This actually happens in all views - the binder and outliner views, too - but because of the way the corkboard works, it is much more obvious there. This has been fixed for beta 3, which I am hoping to get out in a few days.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

I like the idea of displaying the single card in the corkboard window.

Good one … :smiley:

Ah, but it won’t be happening… :frowning: I looked into this and experimented with it, and it ended up causing too many problems and breaking too many thinks. Beta 3 has some alternative options for navigation that should make things a little easier for users who find the current set up a little unintuitive.

Ah, but it won’t be happening… :frowning: I looked into this and experimented with it, and it ended up causing too many problems and breaking too many thinks. Beta 3 has some alternative options for navigation that should make things a little easier for users who find the current set up a little unintuitive.

That’s what betas are for :slight_smile:

D

Mmmm …

If the user drops a document next to the item, then it appears at the same level. If she drops on top of the item, then it appears as a sub-document.

Ok, how this document has a sub-document; now what?
Well, logically I should now display it, because the parent is now a group of documents, with one document in it.

That sounds all wrong …
:confused:

I understand your dilemma, Keith, but surely you see that a vast wasteland of cork - stupidly vast on my 24" Imac - is deeply disturbing. How about this: if you select a single childless note in the binder its synopsis card fills the space entirely - blotting out the cork to give a visual clue that differentiates it from a note whose parent has been selected. This would also allow us to edit single/individual synopses while the inspector is hidden.

Alternately we could just remember Joyce’s envy of Proust’s own vast expanse of cork:

Lol, apt quote. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I humbly ask anyone interested in this thread: wait for beta 3. There is a solution at hand, and it is customisable via the Preferences, so you have the current behaviour or you can get rid of these corkboard expanses. I think the solution in beta 3 is the most intuitive (though no doubt some will agree…), but I will wait until folk have tried it before commenting further.