Great and worth app but...

…once I compiled and exported my draft as .rft file, Apple Pages has not read footnotes at all. Is it due to a lack of Scrivener or to my fault?

Neither, it’s actually because Pages is terrible at reading the standard RTF format. Keith can explain in more detail, but basically you need to use something else, like Word, if you want to export footnotes from Scriv.

Neither - it’s an Apple Pages problem, I’m afraid. The sad fact is that the Pages RTF importer is not very good - it won’t read footnotes, headers, footers, images or certain other attributes, unfortunately (despite the fact that RTF is pretty much a standard format). Pages seems to use the same RTF importer/exporter as TextEdit. (For the record, so does Scrivener - except that I have modified it to support such features as headers, footers, footnotes and images…). Even more annoying is the fact that Apple don’t provide a Pages importer/exporter to developers (as they do with other major formats), meaning that the only way for a developer to support the .pages format directly would be to roll their own .pages converter (months’ worth of work for a single developer). Scrivener’s .doc export won’t help, either, I’m afraid, as the Apple text engine’s .doc export doesn’t support these features so Scrivener uses RTF under the hood for .doc formats, too, meaning that Pages will lose such features.

Please do hassle Apple about providing better RTF compatibility for Pages (I’ve hassled them already about making it easier for developers to support the .pages format). Unfortunately the only way to go from Scrivener to Pages without losing such features at the moment is to use an intermediary word processor - such as Word - to resave the document as a “true” DOC or DOCX file, which Pages can read… But this intermediary step of using Word pretty much negates the point of buying Pages in the first place. As you can probably tell, this galls me rather a lot… I love Pages and much prefer it to Word as a writing environment, but Apple seem to have concentrated so hard on replacing Word as a one-stop writing tool that they have overlooked compatibility with other tools…

All the best,

I have not actually tested the full loop as I do not own Pages, but NeoOffice (or 3.0) does a good job of reading Scrivener RTFs (including proper footnotes), and it arguably has the best Word DOC support on the Mac, outside of Word itself naturally. You should be able to use this free office suite as a conduit to Pages. Simply open the Scrivener RTF in NeoOffice and then choose to save as Microsoft Word. Four different versions are available. I would guess one of the more recent ones would produce the best Pages support.

Keith, they are only going to listen if we organize and demonstrate that many, many users want this to happen. The Pages team claims to want feedback, well, let’s work up a petition and get as many users on the forum as possible to sign it. Someone (Amber?) should write a clear, coherent statement of (1) why RTF import/export is important to the Pages user community and (2) what’s wrong with the present system. And then observe that many potential Pages users are having to buy Mellel, etc to get the right kind of capability. I think a petition is more effective than hundreds of identical statements, which Apple may just think is a single crank sending in a cluster bomb. The forum list is now 53 pages long, so that suggests a large number of folks who might be willing to sign a petition. Shall we give it a go? Yes, we can?? (Sorry, election euphoria on this side of the pond)

Ill write it for y

Go, man. I thought of Amber because of her brilliance, lucid prose, technical expertise, and general acumen. But maybe we better wait and see what KB thinks of the petition idea.

PS: by my calculation, it’s presently 4 am in the UK. Don’t you ever sleep?

I think that anything that persuades Apple to add better RTF facilities to Pages can only be a good thing. On the other hand, I don’t want them thinking it’s a big Scrivener march on Pages that makes them hate me. :slight_smile: On the other hand again (which would be back to the first one), having a single petition with lots of names is less likely to annoy anyone than lots of missives obviously coming from one community. So I say go for it.

a don`t fink vic-ks got eny of them fings. E cant even spell propper. :open_mouth:


I agree with you.

Dang it! Right when I am beginning to think “Ah-ha, KB has three hands! THAT explains many things”, you go and tell us you are in-fact NOT a mutant, multi-armed, hyper-speed-typing, code monkey. I must now wrestle with renewed feelings of awe and inferiority.

lo yall
Has anyone actually pointed out to the Pages team, just how Microsoftesque-ishy, their apparently bizarre indifference to the RTF compatibility problem seems to the Mac community, and how damaging it is to Apple/Pages reputation? If they have, what was Pages response?

We could point out to Pages, that:
Scrivener has left the launch pad; gone into orbit, and is now on the verge of moving out into the Literary Cosmos enlarging its sphere of influence, exponentially. Even to those it impresses least of all, I think it safe to assume theyll regard it as a, [i]'useful bit o kit’, [/i] to have around.

How better then (from Apple`s perspective), that Scriv be able to justifiably extol the virtues of Pages. Who knows what may come of it? Scriv/Pages Aunschluss against the Citadel Word.

How big a job is it (for Apple), to rectify the situation? I wouldn`t know, it all Mongolian to me.

As well as the Amber penned petition, how about a letter from Scrivs business Guru Capt. Jonson to Apples Marketing Dept.(before he pilots us tward that, Final Frontier). I have heard it said, that its not unusual, for different Depts in a company, to be totally ignorant of each others roles, and in some case, existence. Once introduced to one another, contempt hasn`t always been the consequence. Their influence on each other, usually being a positive one. How much easier to market a perfect product, than a flawed one.

It was just after two, my mind had been toying with abstractions elsewhere (plus, Id eaten two pork pies, too late in the evening, and they were giving me jip). I was was about to shut down, when I noticed youd been up to ytricks in Feedback. I thought, "Hello! Hell be giving some poor unsuspecting newbe a bad time because they havent gone through the Tutorial. Ill check it out." No sign of blood anywhere. A tad disappointing. But! Some y` win som…

Best see Dr Mulality.

Take care y`all

Snort has forbidden direct communication with Dr. M. after my attempts to follow his mind clearing suggestions. Apparently the resultant noises and consumption of tissue paper caused much distress.


Mr Jaysen,
Dr Mulalitys credentials are impeccable. However, his Alma Mater: [i]Stocport University of Lifes (Amalgamated) Faculty of Rat Catching/Ditch Digging/Painting and Decorating[/i], does cause one to pause and reflect upon the possibility of one or two shortcomings in his training.

Do Take Care

You all do not want me writing anything about RTF to Apple. :stuck_out_tongue: I suggest you read my rantings on its worthlessness as a document format in MMD related posts! This whole situation is merely part of the argument. Ha.

Well ydefinitely dont want me writing it!! :open_mouth:

Just start pointing people here.

I’ve done it.

It’s not a huge problem for me because I keep footnotes in a separate file in Scrivener and use a reference numbering system to match them up at the end.

However as I’m a big fan of Pages I would like it to be much better at this.

patrick, mo cairde,
Is it not, more a case of putting right, something that is blatantly wrong with Pages, rather than making it even better.

It would appear to be a fault, that defies rational explanations, in mitigation, or justification for it being there in the first place.
Take care

I’m late to this thread but FWIW the latest version of Nisus Writer Pro (v1.2) uses the Open Office text converters, although I’m not sure whether they replace Apple’s for all formats. It might be worth someone playing around with NWP and see how well the new version and Scriv play together.

A trial version of NWP is available from