I have a style, Caption, and I’d like the font, size and alignment to be determined by the document, not by the style configuration for PDF. I have both options off that appear to control this (Include Font Size, Include Font Family). This works for font size and family–these are now determined by the document-- but alignment is always determined by the style configuration, not by the document.
How do I turn this off?
I don’t understand the terminology being used, enough to know what you have tried to do thus far. So I will just say in general that this doesn’t seem like a Mac-specific question to me, so I’ve moved it to general discussion, and that you maybe should read §24.5, Styles, in the user manual PDF.
This compile format option pane is the main thing that matters when it comes to what happens when styles are compiled. I don’t know if that, to you, is the “style configuration” you speak of—but if not, it probably should be.
Note you only need to use that in cases where you want different formatting from what you use in the editor, or in cases where you use stock style names (like “Caption”) in conjunction with stock compile Formats, and don’t like how the latter treats the former. For obvious reasons we put some style overrides in most of the stock formats, so you don’t get 25pt Arial captions (or whatever you write with) in a 12pt Times New Roman manuscript.
Hi AmberV,
Sorry for the incorrect terminology, but you understood what I meant. Here is the configuration I’m refering to:
All the captions are right-justified despite how the alignment is in the document, as you see in the screenshot. How do it say that I want to the alignment in the document to be used?
I guess the question then becomes: why do you have a Format override for this style then, with it changing the alignment to right, if you really want something else? Going back to one thing I said above, you only need to use these settings if you want to change how things looked from the editor. If they are already okay in the editor, then keep it simple and delete the Caption style here.
Or another way of putting it is that the Styles panel exists purely to change the behaviour of styled text when you compile. So then the question becomes circular, how to override the override (use editor formatting over compile formatting). Just don’t override in the first place. 
I use the caption style since you told me in a previous post that it was the solution to keep the image and the caption together in epub–which it is!
I seem to have difficulty expressing the problem. I do not want the caption style to override anything. That is, I want it to override nothing of the formatting in the document.
I have the two available options unchecked and this works for font and fontsize, but not for alignment. So, again, how do I turn it off for alignment?
Or to ask a somewhat difference question: If I can’t turn it off, what is special about alignment? To me it just looks like another formatting option and if the font and fontsize options can be turned off why can’t it too?
Yes, thanks for reminding me of that conversation. Since you’re asking about PDF here, and working with a compile Format for PDF, I don’t think how you are using the Caption style in your ebook Format is of concern. I’m not suggesting you delete the Caption style iteself from the project, or from all of your Formats, and stop using it!
I am only suggesting removing the one right here in this screenshot. Nothing in how you have described this thus far suggests it is of any use to you, that it is instead getting in the way, and that you are spending a lot of time trying to make it not do anything:
I do not want the caption style to override anything. That is, I want it to override nothing of the formatting in the document.
Yes, that is how I understood you, which is why I adivsed deleting the Caption override rule in your PDF compile format settings.
You can experiment, by the way, without any risk. That is why we have a Cancel and a Test button. Save what you have if you’ve done anything important, then load up the Format Designer window again, delete the Caption override rule as described, click Test, and if all looks well, there you go. If not, and it’s worse, then click Cancel, and let me know why. We can go from there.
But I think it would be good to just try what I am suggesting first.
But the caption style is useful, since it will keep the caption and the image together in epub! If I lose that, then I have to waste more time figuring out some workaround for that.
I don’t know how to make myself clearer… Are you implying that there is no option in the style configuration to stop the override of alignment? I guess if there were, there would be a third option “Include alignment”. If you just tell me that, I’ll shut up!!!
Oh, you’re trying to do both ePub and PDF in one single compile Format called “Paperback?” Sorry, that did not even cross my mind, that sounds like more work than its worth, and would require common denominator design compromises from both given how very different they are, but I suppose you have a good reason to do that.
Well yes, in that case you would I suppose want to reset the formatting of the Format’s style to match the project’s stylesheet. You can use the Format ▸ Copy Formatting menu command, with the cursor in any caption line, and then once you have this pane open again, put the cursor in that and use the Paste Formatting command.
For the record, normally to do this you could more easily delete the style and then add it again from the project’s style list, which will sync its formatting settings—but since you’ve got this also wired up to essential ePub functionality, it would be more trouble to do that as you’d have to go into the ePub format settings, in the HTML Options pane, and add it back as the formal captioning style.
Are you implying that there is no option in the style configuration to stop the override of alignment?
That’s right, you’re supposed to be making it look the way you want, making the alignment the way it should be (which the above will do). That seems to me more straightforward than using the wrong alignment setting, and then digging up a setting that excludes it. We’re trying to keep this as simple as possible here rather than having a whole grid of on/off checkboxes for every possible type of formatting a style can do. Fonts are just a special case since they are often something you would want inherited from the Section Layout; i.e. you can say this whole manuscript needs to be TNR 12pt, without having to go through dozens of panels and manually set that.
Many thanks for the full explanation. I get it! But if “fonts are special case” I don’t see why alignment is not as much a special case. In any case, now I know.
Just for the record, I’m using the Manuscript project template that comes with Scriviner. I have one source, but of course two different compile formats for PDF and epub, lightly modified from the template. I don’t want you think that I’m completely bonkers!
Okay, so if you have two different formats, one for epub and another for PDF, then removing the Caption style override from the PDF format is going to do nothing about the epub format. They are 100% independent from one another, and also have nothing to do with the project, specifically (even if they might be saved only in the project, you could change it to be saved globally and use it on another project).
Again, think of formats like CSS files. Removing a selector from one does not delete all of the HTML that uses that element. It does not delete the selector in other completely independent CSS files used for print instead of screen. Try it, click the + button to make a new Format, in the sidebar footer, and check out its Styles list. It will be a blank slate, a fresh start that passes all project style formatting without modifications. The act of saving or using this format will not nuke all of your style setup in the other two Formats, nor any of their other settings.
But how do I “remove the Caption style override from the PDF format”? Here is the dialog:
Where is the REMOVE option?
Click that – button in the top right corner, beside where you would add a new style to the list. Or you can just hit the delete key on your keyboard (which is often worth trying in Scrivener’s “list of things” views like this, along with Enter to create new things). You could even just rename it, since name matching is how these work. “Caption-unused”, would stop changing what “Caption” text looks like, while preserving the settings just in case you ever do want them back.
§24.5.2, Renaming and Removing Compile Styles.
Ok, got it finally! My fundamental problem was that I didn’t realize one could just “detach” a style from a compile format for that style. I learned something new today.
Thanks for your patience.
I want to donate something for the great support. I can’t find a donate link anywhere. Is this possible?
Oh that’s much appreciated! We don’t have any donation stuff set up, but if you want to, I’ve heard of some folks who generously buy copies of the software for colleagues and friends and such as a way of “donating”. We’re happy with the simple gratitude as well though.
